"SCHOOL of HARD KNOCKS"...Contribute if U Can!

[cpubarn]

Ok, more on tle swirl location / temperment thing just for fun..
Thanks

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

Ok, more on tle swirl location / temperment thing just for fun..
Thanks

The temporal whirl on the face of cattle directly related to their disposition. The lower on the face it is, the better the disposition. Below the eyes is much better than aboce them (works on horses too). RW

 

[justintime]

1)A fertile female will have a tail that hangs straight down . Sub fertile cows will have a tail head attached so that the tail is attached too far ahead so that the tail does not hang straight down.

2) In breeding stock, Quality starts from the ground up. If an animals feet and legs are not correctly formed and sound, it really doesn't matter as much as the longevity of the animal is greatly reduced.

3)A good disposition is a valuable asset. Quiet cattle make your work easier, and your pocket book thicker.

4)If you are trying to add muscle to your calves, you have to remember that you will also add muscle to every other part of the animal. For example, if you are trying to select for bigger REA, you will also have cattle that have a little more shoulder. The shoulder of an animal is the only major joint in the body that is held in place only by two large muscle masses, one on each side of the shoulder blade. By increasing the REA in an animal, the muscling that holds the shoulder in place will also increase. It is the angle of the shoulder that is important, more than the amount of shoulder an animal has.

5)The angle of the shoulder is always correct in true structurally sound animals. Animals that are straight shouldered, usually have many more reproductive problems than animals with proper shoulder angle. Straight shouldered females have many times more calving problems than females with proper shoulder angle ( does this suggest why so many clubby calves have to be assisted at birth? It could be from generations of selection of cattle with improper leg and shoulder structure)

6)Well muscled cattle will have their legs positioned under the corners of their body even when thin, if their legs are proper structured.

7)Age at puberty is probably the most important economic trait you can select for.

8) In the lifetime of an average cattle producer, he/ she will only purchase  7 herd sires. Therefore, the selection of your herd sires is one of the most important decisions you will make in your operation. Nothing retains it's value as much as quality, so don't skimp when purchasing your herd sires. In order to do this properly you must study your lessons and decide what your goals are.

9) if you learn what a proper head of a male and female of any breed should look like, and select your breeding stock with this type of head, you will add quality to virtually all parts of the animals in your herd. The head of an animal can tell you more than most any other part of an animal.


There is a leading sales manager here in Canada, who says " send me a picture of your animal's head, and I will tell you if your animal is in the sale".I have heard him tell a breeder when he was asked why their animal wasn't selected for a sale, that he did not like their head. Most people don't know what he is meaning.

 

[r.n.reed]

Never say you have seen it all.

 

[jbh]

Ok, more on tle swirl location / temperment thing just for fun..
Thanks

The temporal whirl on the face of cattle directly related to their disposition. The lower on the face it is, the better the disposition. Below the eyes is much better than aboce them (works on horses too). RW

I just went and checked the swirl on EVERY Heat Seeker female I own.............it's on TOP OF THEIR POLL!!!  (lol) <rock> <cowboy>

 

[SWMO]

Now if some one could just come up with a sure fire way to know which momma cows you can bluff out when tagging calves and which HAVE NO BLUFF IN THEM it would be worth a fortune.  (dog)  How fast can you move?

 

[justintime]

Now if some one could just come up with a sure fire way to know which momma cows you can bluff out when tagging calves and which HAVE NO BLUFF IN THEM it would be worth a fortune.  (dog)  How fast can you move?

That's fairly simple.... have Shorthorn females and you will eliminate 99% of the angry cows at calving time. We used to have 100 purebred Charolais cows and when the first one calved I told my dad that I had figured out how Charolais breeders achieved those 80 lb BWs. I said that from 100 yards away they looked like they weighed 80 lbs. It is much the same with my Angus cows. It is funny that some of us long time Shorthorn breeders haven't been killed at calving time when we calve some cows of other breeds. Shorthorn cows are good to be around at  birth, but at the same time they will defend their calves from dogs, coyotes etc.

 

[Dusty]

Lightning does not know the difference between an old recip and a $10,000 donor.

All time crappiest luck I've ever heard of.....  Cow had calf fine, calf was up, she licked it off..... Then died choking on the afterbirth.....

 

[jackpotcattle]

When trying to determine how cattle will feed out look at the thickness of their tail.Cattle with thin, small tails tend to be harder doing and not feed as well. Cattle with thicker tails tend to be easier fleshing and feeding.

And also if you want to stay in the cattle business you can't fall in "love" with the cows. Yes, some cows deserve to die on the place, but just because they have had one good one isn't a reason to hold them over a year after coming up open. They must wean off a big calf every year and breed back. This is the hardest rule for me to follow. 9 out of 10 times it doesnt work out when I ignore my own rule!

 

[Rustynail]

When I was young, my father and I went to a guys house who had been trying to sell us bulls for quite a few years.  We got out of the truck and the guy said," these bulls have great numbers, come in the house and I will show them to you."  My dad responded, "we run cattle not numbers, how about we look at the bulls instead."  Needless to say we didn't buy anthing that day and on the way home my dad told me a great truth.  A little, ugly, peice of crap with big numbers, is still a little, ugly, piece of crap.  I just think people put way too much stock in epds.  They are usually the last thing I look at when selecting breeding  stock.

 

[Sammy]

there is a relationship between the circumference of the tail at the base and the rib eye size - I forget the exact figure but it is like the circumference x .8 - we used to send quite a few to carcass contests before ultrasound was widely available and it was pretty darn close to being accurate - shopping for bulls even with the ultrasound data I still look at the tail size - jackpotcattle's post reminded me of that -

and even though we sometimes sell cattle by the numbers - "they are but a marketing tool to help sell mediocre cattle" -

 

[justintime]

there is a relationship between the circumference of the tail at the base and the rib eye size - I forget the exact figure but it is like the circumference x .8 - we used to send quite a few to carcass contests before ultrasound was widely available and it was pretty darn close to being accurate - shopping for bulls even with the ultrasound data I still look at the tail size - jackpotcattle's post reminded me of that -

and even though we sometimes sell cattle by the numbers - "they are but a marketing tool to help sell mediocre cattle" -

agree... agree... agree!  Numbers are only a tool to help your eyes and common cow sense.  I also agree with your comments about tail size. My dad would always put his hand around a bull's tail at about the twist area of a bull. I can remember many times I took him to see a bull I thought was pretty neat, and he would put his hand around his tail and say  " well, he may be OK but someone else can own him". It is something I have always remembered and I do firmly believe it has merit.

I think there is so much we could learn about seedstock selection from past generations, that did not have numbers and measurements out their ying yang. I also believe there may have been more cattle breeders in decades past than we have today. Today we have a bunch of cattle multipliers, and a few cattle breeders, and a huge bunch of producers who know how to clip and fit ( I am not saying this is bad in any way)

 

[shorthorngirl2010]

OK, I don't have the years of experience as most on here, but I do have some valuable lessons learned.

1.)  The head. I will agree 100%. Only, when I was taught this, the gentleman correlated the distance between the eyes to the distance between hooks & pins.  Females with the widest head, were the females with the biggest hips.  I've yet to find a female in my herd this doesn't follow this 'rule of thumb'.

2.)  Yearling bulls + older bulls = bad idea!  Seen quite a few young bulls get hurt this way... I've learned to just eliminate the risk on that one and keep yearlings off on their own until they've got one breeding season out of the way! lol

3.)  When calving females out, if a female doesn't stretch when you get her up, get her in; baby on the way.

4.)  Same gentleman that taught me the 'head' thing, used to raise Herefords.  Said you could ALWAYS tell when a replacement heifer settled.  A darker dorsal stripe would appear down their back.  I've had 3 red females since I started showing cattle; every single one developed a dark red line once they settled lol.

5.)  Grandpa could always tell who the EXT daughters were (when we had them) when he walked in the pen... their heads were the first to go in the air lol.

6.)  Can always tell what kind of a winter it's going to be based on how hairy the catapillars and calves are in the fall time...

7.)  Being mostly commercial cow/calf producer, grandpa has taught me since day 1, your herd sire selection is one of your most important decisions you'll make.  The bull is 99.9% of your herd.  A good one with good daughters can continue to improve your herd. But an ok bull with bad daughters will ruin it.

-Sam

 

[cdncowboy]

8) In the lifetime of an average cattle producer, he/ she will only purchase  7 herd sires. Therefore, the selection of your herd sires is one of the most important decisions you will make in your operation. Nothing retains it's value as much as quality, so don't skimp when purchasing your herd sires. In order to do this properly you must study your lessons and decide what your goals are.

Guess my time is becoming limited in the cattle business then. Only 1 more to go!!! (lol)

 

[trademark]

i used to work with this guy that has 200 cows.  he says if u throw enough shit against the wall, something will stick

 

[klintdog]

1 - The fastest way to ruin a good set of cows is to buy a bull because everyone else thinks he's a good one.

2 - EPD's and numbers can lie, Phenotype rarely does.

3 - It's much easier and safer to play in the calm water then try to ride the wave of a trend.

 

[linnettejane]

put fences around rock cliffs....or any other area you think "they will never go there"......cause they will! 

 

[jbh]

WONDERING IF A NEWBORN CALF HAS SUCKED YET:

I always used to get gun shy wondering if a newborn was actually getting ahold of the teat, making sure it was opened up, and if it was actually getting the milk......(especially on MARGINAL uddered recips).....  A buddy of mine told me to simply lift up with your hand between the flanks (obviously on it's belly) and it should feel full......if your hand goes clear to its spine......obviously it's empty. 

It made me feel STUPID that I hadn't ever thought to do that before....

 

[DTW]

Always makes me nervous also if they nurse.
Started reaching from behind between their hind legs and feel the belly.  And you can tell if there is milk in them or not.  Also if the calf sucks my finger then i figure the calf hasnt nursed.  Cant do that on a couple cows or would be running to the nearest fence and jumping over.  Not as easy the older you get.

 

[The Show]

I don't care for EPDs but I will say buy cows with milk of 5+. An old school guy I know told me that, I went home got my papers, went and looked at my cows, and they all matched accordingly.