Scottish national winter fair

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woodyc

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Today was the Scottish national winter fair and the native bred classes was won by a pure bred shorthorn steer bred by David soutar and produced by the Hunter family from Lanarkshire Scotland

Showing prime steers in the UK was once a big operation things are on a smaller scale now but still a very important date in the show calendar it will be meny gets since a shorthorn won this prize
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beebe

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Interesting animal, does not look anything like my steers.
 

woodyc

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The steer will be a double myostain carrier therefore can't be reg in the coates herd book as a breeding bull in the UK all males are tested but we are playing catch up getting females tested but we are getting there whether it was deliberately berd to be double muscled I couldn't say I have had 3 double muscled calves in the last year and I dont want to have that again
 

Duncraggan

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It would be very interesting to see these winners on the hook, then, even more interesting would be to do a steak evaluation test with them prepared by a competent steak chef.
What the consumer experiences is the ultimate goal after all!
Tenderness evaluation and IMF/Fat/EMA values would also add to the whole picture.
 

Medium Rare

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Is the popularity of the myostatin genes a direct result of the processors selecting the judges, who then select the type of cattle, that win in the show ring?
 

knabe

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A double muscled calf that has parents that don’t look double muscled are both carriers.

Couple ways to deal with it.

Only use tested clean bulls, if using unknown bulls, and cows are unknown, test the calves you think you might want to keep that don't exhibit the trait.

Many times, producers of carriers either dump cattle on unsuspecting customers or are just clueless and everything in between.

To me, really the only double muscled breed to use for double muscling in a heterozygous state is Piedmontese.

The fullblood Piedmontese are mostly homozygous for it. I remember reading about a heterozygous bull s while back though.

probably most interesting thing is, is the bull of this calf in the Coates herd book? if so, you should report it to the association and have him tested so other people can make informed decisions.
 
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beebe

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The steer will be a double myostain carrier therefore can't be reg in the coates herd book as a breeding bull in the UK all males are tested but we are playing catch up getting females tested but we are getting there whether it was deliberately berd to be double muscled I couldn't say I have had 3 double muscled calves in the last year and I dont want to have that again
Which myostatin variant does it carry?
 

knabe

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if you get the test, they usually tell you which version.


There are nine known variants of the myostatin mutation:

C313Y common in the Piedmontese

E291X common in the Marchigiana

nt419 sometimes found in Shorthorns and occurs in the Maine Anjou

nt821 Belgian Blue, Blonde, Limousin and South Devon – the most common variant in the Angus

Q204X Charolais, Limousin

E226X – the most common variant found in the Shorthorn and the Maine Anjou

D182N

F94L found in Limousin and sometimes the Shorthorn

S105C

"At present there is little research into the variations of phenotype arising from any of these variants in the Shorthorn. In breeds like the Shorthorn where selection has historically been ‘balanced’, the effects of the mutation may be less pronounced than in other breeds. In addition, the mutations do not operate in isolation, but interact with other genes in ways that are, as yet, poorly understood. It is often observed that one copy of a variant does not necessarily give rise to a deleterious phenotype. There may, for example, be an increase in musculature without obvious signs of any disadvantageous side effects.

It is therefore inappropriate to take a simplistic approach and disqualify all cattle carrying a variant from the herd book. In addition, not all well-muscled Shorthorns will carry any of the mutations."
 

beebe

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.I am not concerned about the F94L but I want to stay away from the E226X. I don't have knowledge about the rest.
 

Hopster1000

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if you get the test, they usually tell you which version.


There are nine known variants of the myostatin mutation:

C313Y common in the Piedmontese

E291X common in the Marchigiana

nt419 sometimes found in Shorthorns and occurs in the Maine Anjou

nt821 Belgian Blue, Blonde, Limousin and South Devon – the most common variant in the Angus

Q204X Charolais, Limousin

E226X – the most common variant found in the Shorthorn and the Maine Anjou

D182N

F94L found in Limousin and sometimes the Shorthorn

S105C

"At present there is little research into the variations of phenotype arising from any of these variants in the Shorthorn. In breeds like the Shorthorn where selection has historically been ‘balanced’, the effects of the mutation may be less pronounced than in other breeds. In addition, the mutations do not operate in isolation, but interact with other genes in ways that are, as yet, poorly understood. It is often observed that one copy of a variant does not necessarily give rise to a deleterious phenotype. There may, for example, be an increase in musculature without obvious signs of any disadvantageous side effects.

It is therefore inappropriate to take a simplistic approach and disqualify all cattle carrying a variant from the herd book. In addition, not all well-muscled Shorthorns will carry any of the mutations."
If you use the search function of the UK database you can actually search for carriers of the myostatin gene.


You can find that option under the "Select if" tabs.

I have came across shorthorns with E226X, F94L, NT419 and NT821.

E226X easily the most common, both the NT versions probably equally the second most common and then there would be less of the F94L variation.
I would guess that the F94L variation will increase now that every male is tested.
 

Hopster1000

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It would be very interesting to see these winners on the hook, then, even more interesting would be to do a steak evaluation test with them prepared by a competent steak chef.
What the consumer experiences is the ultimate goal after all!
Tenderness evaluation and IMF/Fat/EMA values would also add to the whole picture.
The whole grading system in the UK and Ireland is based on muscle confirmation. Double muscle is the winner under this system.

Tenderness, IMF, Fat are not considered under the grading system.

Double muscle does apparently produce tender beef. Obviously IMF and fat are greatly reduced.
 

Hopster1000

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Is the popularity of the myostatin genes a direct result of the processors selecting the judges, who then select the type of cattle, that win in the show ring?
The most common beef breeds in the UK and Ireland are Belgian Blue, Limousin and Charolais. All now generally carry 2 copies of the double muscle gene.
Although native breeds are making a bit of a comeback, they would never get a look in at calf shows such as these unless they were double myostatin carriers.
The processors don't select the judges, however all of the judges will judge the same way as this because they are accustomed to the grading system and are judging to meet this grading system.


This link shows a recent winter fair sale in Ireland, and the calf sold is an example of any of the winners.
 

knabe

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it's why pot pies/sheperd pies are popular?

couldn't find too much info on what a high end steak is in england
 

knabe

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double muscling is a genetic dead end. maine's in france are testing to allow getting rid of it.

surprised Piedmontese aren't popular there.
 

Hopster1000

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it's why pot pies/sheperd pies are popular?

couldn't find too much info on what a high end steak is in england
Northern Ireland has a good shorthorn beef scheme.

Quite a lot of the shorthorn beef would be sold to the other parts of the UK, including England. London would provide a good market. A good shorthorn steak would cost more than an Angus steak in most restaurants.

The mainland UK have a Morrisons Shorthorn beef scheme.
 

Hopster1000

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double muscling is a genetic dead end. maine's in france are testing to allow getting rid of it.

surprised Piedmontese aren't popular there.
Some people do use Piedmontese, but they have a bit of catching up to do. For the higher priced show animals F94L wouldn't provide enough muscle or power.


That's from a sale a couple of days ago.

As long as the grading system over here targets quantity, then the double muscle will continue to thrive.

I personally have tested all my cows and have sold all carriers. In the short term I'll probably suffer under our system. In the long term, who knows.
 

mark tenenbaum

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WOW what a freak show. Do these females raise calves in normal conditions or do they just flush them for terminal steers? Over the years Ive seen the Shorthorn influenced cattle similar to these in many publications. And in the field raising calves. At least from a few cattle show pictures it appears that the Irish have resisted again -like back from the 30s on when the smaller Scotch Shorthorns began to take hold.
 

woodyc

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Some people do use Piedmontese, but they have a bit of catching up to do. For the higher priced show animals F94L wouldn't provide enough muscle or power.


That's from a sale a couple of days ago.

As long as the grading system over here targets quantity, then the double muscle will continue to thrive.

I personally have tested all my cows and have sold all carriers. In the short term I'll probably suffer under our system. In the long term, who knows.
is it just the single carriers you sold?
 
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