Semen catalog

Help Support Steer Planet:

red

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
7,850
Location
LaRue, Ohio
So what did everyone think of Lautner's Semen catalog? Nice bulls, lots of high dollar calves sold out of them, & great pictures! What's missing? TH/PHA results on carrier cattle. Has them listed if clean but no positive results. Any takers on this topic? Come on Show Heifer, I started this one here for you!

Red
 

DL

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
3,622
Oh red you are such a tease!

I have great respect for Dr Don Coover, SEK Genetic Horizon, who has tested (at his own expense) bulls in his catalog for both TH and PHA. In addition he has published a list of PHAC and PHAF as well as THC and THF on his web site as well as putting the information in his catalog.

Now we get the Lautner catalog - interestingly only the free bulls are listed as tested, despite the fact that there are known carriers om the catalog.

I guess there are "sins" of commission and "sins" of omission - this would clearly be the latter. Diogenes was the man who walked the streets of Athens, Greece, during the day time, with a lighted lantern -- looking for an honest man. ...(he may be still looking, think he should go to Galesburg KS!  ;D)

Just goes to show ya once again - buyer beware  :mad: :mad: 

DL
 

Show Heifer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
2,221
;D
I have a hard time grasping the fact that someone as "dominating" (his own words) in the club calf business would settle for riding on someone elses shirttail (Dr.Don Coover) on testing. Every bull in lautners catalog that has a free status is listed (Thanks to Dr. Coover). No carriers were listed. NOR WERE ANY OF HIS NEW BULLS TESTED.  :eek:
Why would lautner settle for this??? Can he not afford to test 11 bulls, when Dr.Coover tested over 75? (Sorry didn't count his list!)??  (clapping)
I am not attacking lautner, as you can not argue with his bull acquiring ability. And his catalog was indeed impressive. Pretty pictures, nice blurbs, glossy cover, and I love the gestation chart in the back cover!!!  Just can't get over this "omission" of info.
Anyone feel this way? ??? ???
 

Telos

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
2,267
Location
Dallas, Texas
"Omission of Information" . Reviewed a sale catalog the other day and noted all the PHA free cattle were footnoted in big black bold letters, PHA FREE.
Was wondering if the sale cattle, of which nothing was listed, were carriers?  I assumed they were,  which accounted for about half the catalog.

Show Heifer, I feel the same way.
 

Joe Boy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Messages
692
I got my catalogue a month ago and made reference to it earlier.  I personally think it is wrong.  I think he has a great ability to judge bulls.  I cannot believe that person would open himself to possible legal action down the line or at the very least the loss of an honorable reputation.  I promise you from the ranchers I have talked with they do not want this problem and think the clubbie industry needs to clean up their act. :-\
 

Show Heifer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
2,221
Joe Boy, so....how do you think the commercial guys need to go about convincing those that are opposed to testing to test.....not sure if you know, but some of us have gotten a bad reputation, been personally attacked and bashed, and have been accused of everythng including the JFK assination.
So....how do we convince these people that they are hurting the cattle industry and the breed? And I am not just talking about lautner.....
And thanks Joe Boy.....appreciate your reply /support and missed your earlier post!!
 

CTM

Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
17
This doesn't hit home or seem that important, until you have one.  We had our first  PHA calf the other day, out of an NFL
heifer we purchased  and  HCC Fast Track.  Let me tell you it is a bad deal.  Great Job to SEK  Genetics  for making this a big deal
and Making is top priority, on the bull they  handle.  Let me tell  you,  YOU DO NOT WANT THIS IN YOUR HERD.
If the don't say  I would say the are carriers.  Another  thing  to think about  BUYING semen on young bulls, can be bad with
very poor quality semen.  We won't use a  bull tell his second season.  Much better semen Quality.

CTM.
 

red

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
7,850
Location
LaRue, Ohio
CTM said:
This doesn't hit home or seem that important, until you have one.  We had our first  PHA calf the other day, out of an NFL
heifer we purchased  and  HCC Fast Track.  Let me tell you it is a bad deal.  Great Job to SEK  Genetics   for making this a big deal
and Making is top priority, on the bull they  handle.  Let me tell  you,  YOU DO NOT WANT THIS IN YOUR HERD.
If the don't say  I would say the are carriers.  Another  thing  to think about  BUYING semen on young bulls, can be bad with
very poor quality semen.  We won't use a  bull tell his second season.  Much better semen Quality.

CTM.

CTM, sorry about you calf! :'( Agree w/ you 100%. We've never had a PHA but have had 2 TH calves born. Want to avoid both by knowing what I'm breeding to.

Red
 

red

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
7,850
Location
LaRue, Ohio
Barrel Racer- this is a question for you- what is normal turn around time on test results?
Pha for example? If someone sent in their blood in October- would they have gottne them by now?
Thanks for all you do!!
Red
 

DL

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
3,622
I'll ask the Barrel Racer to stop by but the turn around for both tests is less than two week in most cases - big sales etc might result in longer turn arounds.

It is amazing to me that people sit around and b***h about not getting results when all they ahave to do is call. Since the test is not licenced yet my understanding is that there are no "official" results being sent - those will come once the test is licenced.

The person to call for PHA results is Donna at 1-800-443-6389.
 

Show Heifer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
2,221
I would also be interested in the turn around time for Th and PHA testing......
I know this would be impossible, but, wouldn't it be interesting if the lab could post a "pending" list.....such as "breeder xyz samples are pending."  I have done a few sale catalogs, and I work on them way longer than 2 weeks, so there should be plenty of time to test.
When is the deadline for display animals at Denver? Do you have to reserve you space ahead of time, or just show up??
Thanks for answering Barrel Racer!
Great day ahead...sunny and warm!
 

justme

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
2,871
Location
Missouri
My 30 or so straws of semen won't bother Lautner Farms...but we decided, no test no purchase.  That simple.  Heck I have enough to do in a day...why make me search for the results???  As a business woman, I understand marketing, but I also believe in customer service.  I like to make it convient for the customer and this catalog didn't make it convient.  A simple test pending would have been sufficeint.  Just my 2 cents
 

DL

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
3,622
Ain't life interesting! These are the facts, I will try to keep them positive so that all the lawyers remain happy.

PHA samples are complete up to samples received 3/2/07 - now that is pretty good work eh? You wait longer for some human results! So if you submitted samples prior to that date call for your results. If you submitted them in the fall call for your results.

According to Dr B the samples on the new Lautner bulls were received 3/2/07. I received my catalog the following week - if one was being negative they could say they didn't want to publish the resultsin the catalog, but since we are being positive lets just say they failed to allow sufficient time to obtain the results prior to publication of the catalog.

Have a great day - a quadrant 4 day actually!

CTM - sorry about your calf ...PHA is an awful thing. DL

 

garybob

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
1,634
Location
NW Arkansas
NOW you guys know why i take such a hard stance on carriers. Imagine how a ten-year-old would feel if his first show heifer had one of these abberrations of DNA.
 

shortyjock89

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
4,465
Location
IL
dragon lady said:
Ain't life interesting! These are the facts, I will try to keep them positive so that all the lawyers remain happy.

PHA samples are complete up to samples received 3/2/07 - now that is pretty good work eh? You wait longer for some human results! So if you submitted samples prior to that date call for your results. If you submitted them in the fall call for your results.

According to Dr B the samples on the new Lautner bulls were received 3/2/07. I received my catalog the following week - if one was being negative they could say they didn't want to publish the resultsin the catalog, but since we are being positive lets just say they failed to allow sufficient time to obtain the results prior to publication of the catalog.

Have a great day - a quadrant 4 day actually!

CTM - sorry about your calf ...PHA is an awful thing. DL

Oh DL, being positive is surely the right thing to do, but it's quite difficult when dealing with such horrible things such as these genetic defects.  Some breeders in my area still don't fully know the dangers that go along with breeding TH or PHA positive bulls to cows that have never been tested.  Having said that, the weather is great here in East Central Illinois...we have actually been able to see the sun the last few days..and able to wash in a T-Shirt.  After that frigid February, this mild March is definately welcome!!

I hope everyone is having nice weather and healthy calves!!

Justin
 

DL

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
3,622
hey shorty - you are a breath of fresh air!

I of course was being factitious - having been accused of being a member of the PHA brigade (I wonder if we get uniforms?)  - these are terrible defects, you loose the calf and can lose the cow.

I agree with you 100% about people not understanding - some don't get the genetics, some don't get the issue, some don't care. I get real annoyed when people  aren't honest about it, when they breed carrier to carrier and then sell the bred to a kid (or anyone for that matter) and when they aren't responsible -

I know people want to use carriers - fine, but be honest about it and test...

OK off the soap box to look for the uniform  ;D (cow) ;D

Great day here - DL
 

Joe Boy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Messages
692
DL, Outside the cattle chat boards PHA and TH are not well known.  The ASA and AMAA have taken some stands and sent out articles in their publications, yet most cattle producers have little or no knowledge of the problem.  How can we get the message out?  Can we get it out without cutting our own throat in selling clean animals?  It seems to me that there is a possibility that ALL Maine's could lose the ability to be sold to the beef industry if the subject is not approached correctly.  People are prone to put people into collective groups.....like "all fat people are jolly," "athletes are all dumb,"  "All women are bad drivers," "all people from the wrong side of the track are thieves," etc.  All Maine or clubbie breeders have something to hide.....

Personally, I think all the Extension Agents should be given the information and all the state veterinarians need to send out the information in newletters. 
2ND.  Articles need to be published in all cattle magazines.
3rd.  Meetings need to be conducted to explain the test and reveal the genetic connections.....(After Dr. Beever's test has become certified by the USDA.)
4th.  I personally believe that some of the boards:  ACA, ASA and AMAA should be at some national meetings with the ranching leaders of American and even the world, so they can learn what others think of this great abnormality.

I read a doctor's article this week about the direction of the beef industry in American.  He pointed out that the 50 cow and below farms are dying and the 200-500 head herds are increasing.  No one with a herd of 500 has the time to check each cow and have c-sections.  His cow with die.  He does not want the problem, period.  I have 55 cows and I do not want it, period.  Most on this board do not have many cows and to lose one is horrible and the expense is terrible.  The horrifying experience and great financial lost is impossible for a teenager. 

You know that I am not appreciated for my stand on another board, but I cannot stop until the potential problem is removed.  There is not any place in the cattle industry for such a deformity.

Thanks for asking and I will do what I can to let others know what is best..... please make suggestions and lets get the ball rolling with so wisdom and forethought.
 

shortyjock89

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
4,465
Location
IL
why thank you DL.  if there are uniforms, sign me up!..haha wow..you people in the brigade sure do catch alot of crap.  I'll be the first to admit, yes we do use TH carrier bulls now and then, but all of our cows are tested. I think that sometimes people get offended by things that aren't meant to be personal attacks.  Things can just get so heated and subjects can be skewed, we just have to maintain a good perspective about what we discuss and do.

DL you and Jen are pretty much my heroes for speaking up for what you believe. Long live the PHA Brigade haha

yea, I think I've said enough for now

Justin
 

Barrel Racer

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
65
Hi Guys! As you might notice by the time of my posting (I should be in bed), just got home from the lab, and had a chance to check my e-mail.  Dr. B has to leave for a meeting on Wednesday so we are trying to get everything we can done before he goes. 
Ok so time frame for PHA tests, if we already have a DNA sample on file, I'd say turn around time is around a week, maybe shorter.  One thing to note, if you have the lab ID number that helps out tremendously.  If it's a new sample, I think they've been getting done around two and a half weeks for verbal results.  Sometimes it might take longer depending on the sample numbers that come in (it will be quicker if we get 80 samples in that week vs. 500).  The large cattle shows and sales seem to slow things up a bit, I know I got slammed before Denver.  I'm trying to keep up the best I can.  It's important to understand that real life genetics is not CSI, where you just take a sample put some clear liquid into it, stick it into a machine and then 30 seconds later a results pops out (some days I really wish it was). 

shorty, make sure to stop by when you get to campus!  oh yeah funny thing is that we (our whole lab of 5 girls) actually do have lab t-shirts for sand volleyball..... (lol)  I'm not going to say much about them except that it involves a cape, tights, and big B on the chest, a picture of a guy we all know and love,  and some very creative photoshoping done by a PhD student........ ;D
 

red

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
7,850
Location
LaRue, Ohio
The PHA Brigade uniform should be the following:
tie-dyed t-shirts ( in honor of the multi colored beefpaca)
bell bottom jeans
head bands & platform shoes are optional

Barrel Racer, I love the shirts you guys wear! I really liked Dr B's reply on the timing of the samples that were received.
Shorty Jock, you must make your parents proud!
Joe Boy: great ideas. I really enjoyed reading your post.
Telos: you & I are now offical members of the troublemakers!
DL & Jen: never a problem defending someone that is being unfairly slammed
Sorry I'm no Funky Stitcher when it comes to shirts!!!

That's it for old Red here. Have a great one & keep truckin!
 

Attachments

  • swirl.JPG
    swirl.JPG
    28.3 KB · Views: 232
Top