Semen will no longer be available-25 straws $3000 etc-THIS IS for Jeff Cornell

[itk]

A person syndicates a bull to make money, more than he would selling semen on it probably. 30,40, $60,000 for a syndication. How many units would you have to convince the public to buy at $15 a unit in order to make that off of the bull? A lot of people like the chance to potentially have some really good show calves for an investment of a couple thousand. A lot of times you can make your money back fairly easily if you have good enough cows. As far as the show ring goes, it's all about the look, and the limited edition cross isn't giving the right look, but I'm sure they are very good cattle, probably perform better than the ones winning...

JTM I totally understand what you are saying it is the SAFE way to sell semen it will guarantee that you get your money back but it also puts a cap on the amount of money you can make. I don't know how much Sonny semen Cory sold but I'm sure it was more then 30 thousand so think of how much money he would have lost syndicating him. The same goes with Double Stuff and countless others. You might say well those are once in a life time breed changing bulls, well I never bought a main herd sire thinking he couldn't be on that level. I never got there but it wasn't from a lack of confidence in my selections. Why would you buy a bull thinking he's OK and could probally help out a few guys so I will just sell semen to them. 

 

[aj]

Wasn't the timeline bull from Canada sold for 30,000$ or something like that. Look what he has done.

 

[Okotoks]

Wasn't the timeline bull from Canada sold for 30,000$ or something like that. Look what he has done.

It was only a matter of time! Yes Timeline sired the 2010 Canadian Agribition Champion Female. Attached are a couple of pics of sons. I think he actually sold for less than $30,000 but if you paid the difference you could probably get a share.

 

[feeder duck]

I am really getting fed up with the so called next great Shorthorn-especially the big time syndicated ones who disappear after thier calves are either 150 pounds (from thier .01 bw epds) or arent worth a S&&*()%^T! As the breed and UNDOUBTABLY ANY ONE ELSE WHO WOULD USE A SHORTHORN BULL-shrinks into a 3 or 4 breeder clique -with 1 farm producing so-called performance cattle-and the other 3-or 4 all selling the same dam thing-with at least 60% of it being trade-The base of  new usable bulls( althoughVERY few) -only really becomes available tothe 3 or 4 people who bought the bull in the first place.This in effect is a stupid but concerted effort to further roadblock the breed from any real use by1: small breeders,(thats  90 PERCENT OF SHORTHORN PEOPLE), or 2: Anybody in the commercial deal who is limited to one or two $35-50 per straw AI bulls that dont have the thickness or performance of a $10 angus-they dont show em-so I dont want to hear the cliches about bone,and front etc etc. I SURE DONT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THE BWS.Do you hear me up in North Dakota?-Is IT Because you didnt have the guts to see how your LTD Edition grandson would breed on the open market? Having had a herd of cattle with his breeder Mark Mueller DMCC,-Id say: come out of the clouds-I admire performance cattle-I started with them:from 3 cows 1: had Byland Explosian who went to Australia-the Lavender was AUNT to Byland Sparkler etc.But I kept the Bws within reason-and HAD TO SHOW these cattle-YOU ARENT PROVING YOURE GENETICS limiting them to your cows:and it seems like the whole dam bunch of you dont respect that people want to breed thier cattle HOW THEY WANT TO BREED THEM-they dont want to have to buy your cow-or female to access a bull.-As far as the Dunlap so-called commercial cattle go-love the show cattle-but in terms of the rest of us peasents-YOUR RACE IS RUN,and the outcross etc bulls -again going back to DMCC LTD Edition-dont have any value outside of your program-cause no-body else is using them-at this point-WHY WOULD THEY if they could? O0

THANK YOU Mark for your support of our program. Just for the record if all goes well I officially or personally will not own a Shorthorn cow by the end of the year. Now with that said we are not out!!! The three or four we still own will be in my sons name. It is just more economically sound for us to look in a different direction. My kids are having FUN and some success in the Red Angus breed. I have love my shorthorns and have had my share of success.They say lead,follow or get left behind. I plan on following those in the Red Angus that I admire to learn like we did in the horns. Joe Farris,Jeff and Dee Connell,Joel Brooks and Aldens shaped the way I breed cattle. We did what we did and do what we do low budget. I plan on adding my own twist. My motto would be lead, follow or get the #$!! out of my way. 

 

[JTM]

A person syndicates a bull to make money, more than he would selling semen on it probably. 30,40, $60,000 for a syndication. How many units would you have to convince the public to buy at $15 a unit in order to make that off of the bull? A lot of people like the chance to potentially have some really good show calves for an investment of a couple thousand. A lot of times you can make your money back fairly easily if you have good enough cows. As far as the show ring goes, it's all about the look, and the limited edition cross isn't giving the right look, but I'm sure they are very good cattle, probably perform better than the ones winning...

JTM I totally understand what you are saying it is the SAFE way to sell semen it will guarantee that you get your money back but it also puts a cap on the amount of money you can make. I don't know how much Sonny semen Cory sold but I'm sure it was more then 30 thousand so think of how much money he would have lost syndicating him. The same goes with Double Stuff and countless others. You might say well those are once in a life time breed changing bulls, well I never bought a main herd sire thinking he couldn't be on that level. I never got there but it wasn't from a lack of confidence in my selections. Why would you buy a bull thinking he's OK and could probally help out a few guys so I will just sell semen to them.   

itk, you make a good point there. Especially with the bulls mentioned. I believe Sonny went pretty expensive fairly quickly after the success came. To add to what you are saying, I think that a lot of the people who are syndicating bulls are the ones who have these bulls every year. So in their minds, and smartly, why not sell syndicates every year and make all of the money upfront instead of taking the risk, waiting the years, and dealing with the paperwork of an AI bull. I think it makes sense for the top breeders who are making the higher dollars.

 

[cattlefarmer]

Mark, you do realize "that guy from North Dakota" did have open semen sales on Red Demand? Right???? Yes -Did have open sales-now no longer avail. etc-check the latest sale catalogue.

Call "that guy in North Dakota" and ask him why its no longer on the open market!!!  I am sure he will tell you why its no longer going to be avalable.   

 

[NSF]

Mark, you do realize "that guy from North Dakota" did have open semen sales on Red Demand? Right???? Yes -Did have open sales-now no longer avail. etc-check the latest sale catalogue.

Call "that guy in North Dakota" and ask him why its no longer on the open market!!!  I am sure he will tell you why its no longer going to be avalable.   

Oh don't worry! I'm SUUUURE he called and asked about why it was no longer openly available before jumping to such an accusation. I mean, how else would he KNOW the bull was pulled due to an irrational fear of competing in an open market place?!?!

 

[sue]

What does it do to the accuracy of EPD's when a bull only gets used on certain cows.........hmm I'm guessing it don't hurt them! That's my complaint about them....and on the cow side when she gets treated like a baby but they compare her calves to the ones out doing it in the pasture.....

This really plays into what Linnette Jane said, you control what cows the bull breeds to and can influence the #'s one way or another (ideally would be positive), so when or if these animals do get used in the realworld their #'s aren't a true reflection of the cattle in real world matings and enviroment.  They are a true reflection of Bull A - bred to cow B, but not a good reflection bred to cow B-Z.  Then again maybe their is some syndicates that breed great show cattle and they don't want the genetics to be used in real world conditions because this is not what they are bred for and if done would be viewed very negatively (understandable).  

EXample on changing epd.s, (docility) breeding animals with a very high docility #'s over and overto each other will most of the time yield in more and greater docility epd.s and acc.  But when someone takes those docile animals and breeds them to others on low end of docility there will be fewer dociile animals, so the #'s wouldn't be as good.  So if you breed the best to the best  in a trait or traits, and totally remove the best to okay or to bad matings, #'s will change, and great #'s look a lot better than okay #'s. My 2 cents.   8)  

It would suck though if the syndicated bull could do a lot of good for the breed and his much needed influence is being held back.

Above statement nails it on the head.
Marketing 3/4 red maine bulls is not my bag - I did see red advantage in person he is thick and larger framed, looked very sound.  A few sons of red advantage sold last march and I am sure more will sell this fall and spring.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Mark, you do realize "that guy from North Dakota" did have open semen sales on Red Demand? Right???? Yes -Did have open sales-now no longer avail. etc-check the latest sale catalogue.

Call "that guy in North Dakota" and ask him why its no longer on the open market!!!  I am sure he will tell you why its no longer going to be avalable.   

Oh don't worry! I'm SUUUURE he called and asked about why it was no longer openly available before jumping to such an accusation. I mean, how else would he KNOW the bull was pulled due to an irrational fear of competing in an open market place?!?!////-=

I could care less whats rational or not:aint my bull-he can do what he wants-but in that case dont purport that you have performance cattle with llegitimate EPDS-if they ARE NOT USED ON THE GOOD, THE BAD,AND THE UGLY.-I had an overall point to make-that covers alot of years and bulls.If you have 10 or less cows,like most small breeders-and want to buy a min. of 20 straws for $3000 or whatever because you like the looks of a bull,be my guest.All I know is that other than Deertrail Awesome-every decent or National showinning bull we had was on the open market,where anybody could use them. Some of them sold alot-some didnt. There arent enough big breeders in the Shorthorn deal to buy a large share in a bull to do much anyhow-especially with 4-5 a year being syndicated. The general idea of the thread is that everyone is concerned that people arent using Shorthorns-and because it is not a competitive market with commercial acceptance-this perpetuates the "non-use" and basically reduces the gene pool available (other than the SOS broken record cattle)further removing the breed from being anything other than a show ring deal.I dont think thats any way to prove your cattle work at all,and the less you see one out in a field with commercial cattle-the worse it gets.

 

[aj]

I do know the people up North talk funny. Like the people from Minnesooooooooota and Michhhhhhhhhigan. ;D

 

[sue]

Michigan folks talk and sound like the "news".  It's standard  - parts of MN have passed as Michigan accents. 

 

[aj]

I had a custom cutter from Minesooooooooota this summer. He made fun of my accent when we were cutting wheat down by the Beaver Crick. ;D