Shorthorn advice please

[Duncraggan]

I have 32 cows and 12 heifers to inseminate end October.

I have available 25 doses of Crawfdown Fighter Pilot 1W, 23 doses of Shadybrook Powerplay 802U as well as >200 doses Spry's All Gold D052.

I have used D052 on heifers without any calving trouble for the last two years but six of the heifers to be inseminated are daughters.

According to ASA Fall 2013 EPDS, 1W has slightly lower BW but much worse CE, and 802U has much higher BW and much worse CE than D052.

I had a hard pull in autumn of an 802U calf out of a mature cow and therefore will not use him on heifers, but is 1W suitable?

Opinions please?

 

[justintime]

personally I have not used either Crawfdown Fighter Pilot 1W or Shadybrook Powerplay 802U, but I would not consider either of them to be safe for heifers but I am only going by pedigree and nothing more. You may get by very well using 1W on the gold daughters. If they were mine, I may even consider breeding them back to their sire All Gold, if these are the only choices you have. I would say that if I had to choose between Fighter Pilot and Powerplay, I would definitely try the Fighter Pilot bull

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Lacking options for AI is a sad moment for a breeder!

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Find another bull to breed the hiefers to-If you will list whats avalable FOR HIEFERS-I"ll put in my 2 cents-If Capiche or one of the low BW Canadian bulls-even HC Touchdown if he is available. I would think second for calves-Fighter pilot will work on daughters of both of the other bulls. O0

 

[justintime]

HC FL Touchdown 123T is available through Genex, but I am not sure if he is available in South Africa. He has left us some of our best calves this year... my pick of the top 2 bull calves are both by Touchdown. I would also check with Semex and see if they have any Shadybrook Optimum 75F available in S Africa. He is one of my all time favorite heifer bulls. We used him for years and his calves were 100% unassisted and polled. Optimum is homozygous polled.  We never had a "throw away" calf, on either sex. He is one of the few sires we have used that every bull calf was sold as a breeding bull, and all were from heifers.  I know he has been used around the world, so there may be some of his semen there. I have pictured Optimum as a yearling, and a heifer calf that topped the Royal Winter Fair at $7000 a few years ago.

 

[Okotoks]

I would rather use Fighter Pilot than Powerplay. Pilot has a reasonable bw of 83 lbs. Shadybrook has produced some really good bulls but Powerplay is not one of my favourites. I would rather use Shadybrook Scotty on heifers but I think you posted somewhere that you had used him before. What about breeding them natural if you don't like your AI options?

 

[sue]

personally I have not used either Crawfdown Fighter Pilot 1W or Shadybrook Powerplay 802U, but I would not consider either of them to be safe for heifers but I am only going by pedigree and nothing more. You may get by very well using 1W on the gold daughters. If they were mine, I may even consider breeding them back to their sire All Gold, if these are the only choices you have. I would say that if I had to choose between Fighter Pilot and Powerplay, I would definitely try the Fighter Pilot bull

I agree with Grant's comment -based on pedigree I would not consider either  a "heifer option".  The Accuracy is so low on all three bulls and very few progeny have been reported too. Take a look at Spry's All Gold epd's on the Aussie system?  You might consider a bull calf you bred to kick out too.

 

[Duncraggan]

personally I have not used either Crawfdown Fighter Pilot 1W or Shadybrook Powerplay 802U, but I would not consider either of them to be safe for heifers but I am only going by pedigree and nothing more. You may get by very well using 1W on the gold daughters. If they were mine, I may even consider breeding them back to their sire All Gold, if these are the only choices you have. I would say that if I had to choose between Fighter Pilot and Powerplay, I would definitely try the Fighter Pilot bull

I am hesitant to linebreed as I have not had great results in the past.  Maybe linebreeding over larger numbers as opposed to single examples might be more rewarding.

I would like to breed the light roan/white All Golds to something different, he has thrown me too many whites, they don't sell very well here!

I have, after the post replies, decided not to use 1W or 802U on any heifers.

 

[Duncraggan]

Lacking options for AI is a sad moment for a breeder!

You know the feeling, I go green with envy when I see the options available in N. America.

 

[Duncraggan]

Find another bull to breed the hiefers to-If you will list whats avalable FOR HIEFERS-I"ll put in my 2 cents-If Capiche or one of the low BW Canadian bulls-even HC Touchdown if he is available. I would think second for calves-Fighter pilot will work on daughters of both of the other bulls. O0

Semex only has the two aforementioned bulls available here.  Genex has not replied since Thursday as to whether they have an agent in South Africa.  Select Sires had, recently, Gauge and Capiche available.

I used 30 doses of Gauge and my first 24 gave me 17 pregnancies, two cows died of tickborne diseases and one aborted.  The 14 live calves averaged 34kg (75lbs).  I am very happy as a previous post on SP had me extremely concerned and I therefore did not use him on heifers!

The 2013 EKKA Interbreed Champion in Australia is an All Gold daughter with a Capiche calf at foot!

I gave these two bulls as options because I want to reduce the semen inventory I have in my tanks (+/- 1000 doses).

 

[Duncraggan]

I would rather use Fighter Pilot than Powerplay. Pilot has a reasonable bw of 83 lbs. Shadybrook has produced some really good bulls but Powerplay is not one of my favourites. I would rather use Shadybrook Scotty on heifers but I think you posted somewhere that you had used him before. What about breeding them natural if you don't like your AI options?

Correct, my last Scotty was used in 2011.  Got five live calves from eight doses, 3M/2F.  Two bull calves made the first cut, the other had minute testicles and went to the feedlot.  I will use the best one next year.

I haven't had a 'senior' herdsire since 2011 when he got old.  I used to use him and the best two-year-old, I now use the best two two-year-olds and sell them as three-year-olds.  This has done wonders for herd uniformity in my young stock.  My current two that I have kept for use this year are both All Gold sons, one will probably grow old with me as he is probably the best Shorthorn I have ever bred.  Even the herd consultant could not fault him, which is highly unusual!

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Lacking options for AI is a sad moment for a breeder!

You know the feeling, I go green with envy when I see the options available in N. America.

Yes I know well!  ???
But the options that arrived here in Brazil not make me happy also, as many bulls were so....hard to choose!
Due to this I'm joining some friends and bringing semen from what we want directly, not using semen compamies options, not at least they show me the right bull....and this is almost impossible by last decades here!!!

 

[Duncraggan]

I would rather use Fighter Pilot than Powerplay. Pilot has a reasonable bw of 83 lbs. Shadybrook has produced some really good bulls but Powerplay is not one of my favourites. I would rather use Shadybrook Scotty on heifers but I think you posted somewhere that you had used him before. What about breeding them natural if you don't like your AI options?

Correct, my last Scotty was used in 2011.  Got five live calves from eight doses, 3M/2F.  Two bull calves made the first cut, the other had minute testicles and went to the feedlot.  I will use the best one next year.

I haven't had a 'senior' herdsire since 2011 when he got old.  I used to use him and the best two-year-old, I now use the best two two-year-olds and sell them as three-year-olds.  This has done wonders for herd uniformity in my young stock.  My current two that I have kept for use this year are both All Gold sons, one will probably grow old with me as he is probably the best Shorthorn I have ever bred.  Even the herd consultant could not fault him, which is highly unusual!

Here is the bull I am using at the end of the year, D. Smashing Stuff 103.  From the name you will realise that I knew I had something special from day one!

Came out of the cows early June and has been on oats/ryegrass since then until it ran out last week.  I am in desperate need of some rain at the moment!

 

[Okotoks]

I would rather use Fighter Pilot than Powerplay. Pilot has a reasonable bw of 83 lbs. Shadybrook has produced some really good bulls but Powerplay is not one of my favourites. I would rather use Shadybrook Scotty on heifers but I think you posted somewhere that you had used him before. What about breeding them natural if you don't like your AI options?

Correct, my last Scotty was used in 2011.  Got five live calves from eight doses, 3M/2F.  Two bull calves made the first cut, the other had minute testicles and went to the feedlot.  I will use the best one next year.

I haven't had a 'senior' herdsire since 2011 when he got old.  I used to use him and the best two-year-old, I now use the best two two-year-olds and sell them as three-year-olds.  This has done wonders for herd uniformity in my young stock.  My current two that I have kept for use this year are both All Gold sons, one will probably grow old with me as he is probably the best Shorthorn I have ever bred.  Even the herd consultant could not fault him, which is highly unusual!

Here is the bull I am using at the end of the year, D. Smashing Stuff 103.  From the name you will realise that I knew I had something special from day one!

Came out of the cows early June and has been on oats/ryegrass since then until it ran out last week.  I am in desperate need of some rain at the moment!

I like the looks of this guy, but would like to see a photo more from the side or rear view. This is the Sprys All Gold son?

 

[Duncraggan]

Genex has not replied since Thursday as to whether they have an agent in South Africa.  Select Sires had, recently, Gauge and Capiche available.
[/quote]
Genex replied today, they only have Homedale Accomplished available, no HC FL Touchdown 123T or Homedale Creole 135.  They are the only three in their 'Added Attractions' that stood out as suitable for my operation.

Accomplished, judging by his EPD's is also not a heifer bull!

 

[renegadelivestock]

simply from a heifer safe point of view, cappiche is solid for easy calving

 

[Duncraggan]

I like the looks of this guy, but would like to see a photo more from the side or rear view. This is the Sprys All Gold son?

Correct.

I liked his muscling through the twist as well as his moderate frame size and early maturity pattern.

As you can see from the pictures I am in desperate need of some rain.

My apologies for the late reply, I have been away and then had tax filing administration to keep me occupied!

 

[Duncraggan]

Sorry, pictures didn't load....