Shorthorn calving ease issues or not?

[oakview]

I wonder how many of us collect the amount of data listed by Waukaru.  I would guess that would be none, or close to it.  Most of the herd bulls advertised in magazines of any breed were more than likely selected because: 1)he looked nice 2)a certain breeder raised the bull 3)he had a certain sire 4)he was cheap 5)someone told me he was good 6) he was red and polled (insert preference here), etc.  How many of us have used much of that information when selecting our new herd bull, let alone evaluating our entire herd in that manner.  We have collected weight and ultrasound information at our Iowa Beef Expo for years.  I will guarantee you that information has very little or no influence on the selling price of the bull.  Usually, the pedigree and the fitting ability of the person selling the bull will have much more impact than any hard data although I have seen many fat, fit bulls from top breeders sell under the money, too.  I have always found it interesting how cattle producers think.  Many times I read posts on this web site that seem to say, "Everyone should raise cattle like I do.  I've used everything else and it didn't work.  People that don't raise cattle like me are stupid."  Kind of like politics.  I may think that Harry Reid would have to move up a few rungs to qualify as an idiot.  But I'll bet that Harry can't understand why everybody doesn't think like him. 

 

[garybob]

TGC,
Yes those bulls are still at King Ranch.  They are developing a new line of gerts, it does take a bit of time to achieve 5/8 Brahman and 3/8 shorthorn.  I can not remember all of the details exactly.  We have been fortunate to sell to King Ranch and a couple other Santa herds to accomplish this. 
I should respond in more depth to our Rodeo Drive discussion.  It is my belief that that that bull has genetic value in some places.  Of Waukaru's 2011 calf crop only 1/2 of 1 % were sired by Rodeo Drive.  I used the bull for several reasons.  The daughters, granddaughters, and great-granddaughters have been major contributors to the genetics that our customers have demanded.  The carcass merit of the cattle is top notch and the performance is real.  Second, I often use bulls with extremely high EPD accuracies to compare to sires of low accuracies.  This gives us, Waukaru, a better understanding as exactly how the current calf crop performs in terms of birth weight, calving ease, weaning weight, post wean wda, yearling weight, scrotal circumference, backfat, REA and IMF.  We also collect cow body condition scores, preg rates, and DNA analysis of the cattle to determine their worth.  Sometimes we remember only the good in a past herdsire, sometimes only the bad.  It is interesting to note that when Rodeo Drive was used at his peak, many shorthorn cattle had a lot of dual influence.  I have often wondered how the bull may have been perceived if he came along in 1977 or 1997.  Other bulls that we have used in the past with a similar purpose of Rodeo have been Sutherland Ransom 179x, Mill Brook Ransom G9, Mill Brook Marc IV, Waukaru Chaps. Waukaru Prime Minister, W Austin City Limits. and even Stars and Stripes 6th. 
Here is what I know so far of the only Rodeo Drive sired calf  in the 2011 crop.  He was born unassisted and weighed 94 pounds.  The dam is sired Gold Card 5042 and I think she could hold birth weight down. (I would have thought the calf could have weighed even more) The bull ranked 12 out of 15 in his contemporary group for birth weight.  I am anxious to see how the rest of his group compares to him in terms of growth.  Time will tell.  I think the breed has made great progress, I just want to check our work from time to time.  On a side note, the dam of the Rodeo bull calf measured a 5.78 frame as a yearling, posted a yearling ratio of 108 and was the highest IMF female in here group of 2007 females.  She has calved every spring and I have sold two flushes from her.
We know that in beef production we have made progress in herd health, nutrition, pasture management and many other facets.  I think it is okay to stop and see if your performance level is because of genetic progress, or progress in animal husbandry.  That is one of the reasons why I think it is beneficial to use older, proven sires from time to time.

How did those bulls adapt to Mesquite & Prickly Pear Cactus after leaving the Midwest? Can you ask king ranch to supply us with actual pics of these bulls, and their offspring? I have a hard time beleiving these bulls actually will eat the fruit of a cactus or the beans off a Mesquite during a drought. Show me pics. Then, I MIGHT .......MAYBE......become less of a skeptic.

The Vanguard bull at Paul Bridwell's looks pretty good.

GB

 

[Okotoks]

TGC,
Yes those bulls are still at King Ranch.  They are developing a new line of gerts, it does take a bit of time to achieve 5/8 Brahman and 3/8 shorthorn.  I can not remember all of the details exactly.  We have been fortunate to sell to King Ranch and a couple other Santa herds to accomplish this. 
I should respond in more depth to our Rodeo Drive discussion.  It is my belief that that that bull has genetic value in some places.  Of Waukaru's 2011 calf crop only 1/2 of 1 % were sired by Rodeo Drive.  I used the bull for several reasons.  The daughters, granddaughters, and great-granddaughters have been major contributors to the genetics that our customers have demanded.  The carcass merit of the cattle is top notch and the performance is real.  Second, I often use bulls with extremely high EPD accuracies to compare to sires of low accuracies.  This gives us, Waukaru, a better understanding as exactly how the current calf crop performs in terms of birth weight, calving ease, weaning weight, post wean wda, yearling weight, scrotal circumference, backfat, REA and IMF.  We also collect cow body condition scores, preg rates, and DNA analysis of the cattle to determine their worth.  Sometimes we remember only the good in a past herdsire, sometimes only the bad.  It is interesting to note that when Rodeo Drive was used at his peak, many shorthorn cattle had a lot of dual influence.  I have often wondered how the bull may have been perceived if he came along in 1977 or 1997.  Other bulls that we have used in the past with a similar purpose of Rodeo have been Sutherland Ransom 179x, Mill Brook Ransom G9, Mill Brook Marc IV, Waukaru Chaps. Waukaru Prime Minister, W Austin City Limits. and even Stars and Stripes 6th. 
Here is what I know so far of the only Rodeo Drive sired calf  in the 2011 crop.  He was born unassisted and weighed 94 pounds.  The dam is sired Gold Card 5042 and I think she could hold birth weight down. (I would have thought the calf could have weighed even more) The bull ranked 12 out of 15 in his contemporary group for birth weight.  I am anxious to see how the rest of his group compares to him in terms of growth.  Time will tell.  I think the breed has made great progress, I just want to check our work from time to time.  On a side note, the dam of the Rodeo bull calf measured a 5.78 frame as a yearling, posted a yearling ratio of 108 and was the highest IMF female in here group of 2007 females.  She has calved every spring and I have sold two flushes from her.
We know that in beef production we have made progress in herd health, nutrition, pasture management and many other facets.  I think it is okay to stop and see if your performance level is because of genetic progress, or progress in animal husbandry.  That is one of the reasons why I think it is beneficial to use older, proven sires from time to time.

How did those bulls adapt to Mesquite & *****ly Pear Cactus after leaving the Midwest? Can you ask king ranch to supply us with actual pics of these bulls, and their offspring? I have a hard time beleiving these bulls actually will eat the fruit of a cactus or the beans off a Mesquite during a drought. Show me pics. Then, I MIGHT .......MAYBE......become less of a skeptic.

The Vanguard bull at Paul Bridwell's looks pretty good.

GB

I would assume it's not how these bulls adapted but how their ofspring adapt after being blended with Brahman to produce the 5/8 Brahman 3/8 Shorthorn blend that make up the Santa Gertrudis. Seems to me the breed does pretty well in spite of the skeptics and naysayers. All this positive energy and enthusiasm is overwhelming!

 

[Doc]

How did those bulls adapt to Mesquite & *****ly Pear Cactus after leaving the Midwest? Can you ask king ranch to supply us with actual pics of these bulls, and their offspring? I have a hard time beleiving these bulls actually will eat the fruit of a cactus or the beans off a Mesquite during a drought. Show me pics. Then, I MIGHT .......MAYBE......become less of a skeptic.

The Vanguard bull at Paul Bridwell's looks pretty good.

GB

I would assume it's not how these bulls adapted but how their ofspring adapt after being blended with Brahman to produce the 5/8 Brahman 3/8 Shorthorn blend that make up the Santa Gertrudis. Seems to me the breed does pretty well in spite of the skeptics and naysayers. All this positive energy and enthusiasm is overwhelming!
[/quote]
I gotta agree with you on this okotoks. Could you believe it if they were Red Cloud sons or by 329 , CO, or any of the other approved bulls. I mean like "O" said you get Shorties into a herd like that & all people want to do is shoot the accomplishment down ???? I mean lets give credit where credit is due. I don't care who the bulls came from as long as they were Shorties & did the job. Like Oakview said Waukaru obviously had the documentation to back up their product.  I've seen a lot of cattle from MN , MI & some other northern states come down here to TN & it takes a couple of years for them to get acclimated to our heat, humidity & fescue. The people didn't get rid of them in the 1st summer , they gave them a chance. 

 

[RyanChandler]

Gerts are 5/8 shorthorn 3/8 brahman.   They lost most of their commercial acceptance, at least  in this area, because their purebred breeders refused to moderate frame and milk.   We ran Gerts on Angus cows in the past and while the F1s we kept were excellent mothers, their bags are now strutted and we're having to cull them bc of it long before we would otherwise.   I hope KR selects more moderate framed shortys w/ less milk in their current efforts as I attribute both of their downfalls to poor shorthorn selection initially.

 

[nate53]

All this positive energy and enthusiasm is overwhelming!

  ;D

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

COME ON GUYS how can any shorthorn breeder say that the breed in general doesn't have a problem or try to skate around the issue?  You want to know if the breed has a issue... why don't you ask the commercial breeders out there if they think we have a issue with bw.  I would bet that most would say yes.  That means we have a issue.  Yes I know that bulls like trump, Sonny, Rodeo Drive might have some sons that throw smaller bw calves but that isn't the rule.  We as a breed can keep lying to ourselves or we can just face it.  Remember the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. 

 

[vanridge]

COME ON GUYS how can any shorthorn breeder say that the breed in general doesn't have a problem or try to skate around the issue?  You want to know if the breed has a issue... why don't you ask the commercial breeders out there if they think we have a issue with bw.  I would bet that most would say yes.  That means we have a issue.  Yes I know that bulls like trump, Sonny, Rodeo Drive might have some sons that throw smaller bw calves but that isn't the rule.  We as a breed can keep lying to ourselves or we can just face it.  Remember the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. 

You ask these same commercial guys about simmentals or charlois they will tell you the same thing. It's not just a shorthorn issue. The impression I get from people is  they don't use shorthorn because of the color, or they see them as tall and skinny hard keeping cattle. They don't see them as a "real"  beef breed. 

 

[nate53]

It's not good enough to be as good as the rest if you want commercial ( operations that make their living on cattle) acceptance then you have to be better than the rest or have something that they really need in their operation.  The shorthorn breed has got stuff the commercial guy needs but they don't have it in consistencey or in any real quantity.  Black angus is the main player, every breed has or is trying to show what they can offer the angus breed.  What percentage of the angus sires out there have calving ease issues?  What percentage of the shorthorn sires out there have calving ease issues?  What percentage of shorthorn sires can give the angus the positives (which is why they would try shorthorn) without all the negatives?  Angus is not perfect, nobody said it was, they have their problems, why not use their problems and make them positive reasons to try the shorthorns.

 

[Okotoks]

It's not good enough to be as good as the rest if you want commercial ( operations that make their living on cattle) acceptance then you have to be better than the rest or have something that they really need in their operation.  The shorthorn breed has got stuff the commercial guy needs but they don't have it in consistencey or in any real quantity.  Black angus is the main player, every breed has or is trying to show what they can offer the angus breed.  What percentage of the angus sires out there have calving ease issues?  What percentage of the shorthorn sires out there have calving ease issues?  What percentage of shorthorn sires can give the angus the positives (which is why they would try shorthorn) without all the negatives?  Angus is not perfect, nobody said it was, they have their problems, why not use their problems and make them positive reasons to try the shorthorns.

Getting a consistant product that compliments the Angus commercial herd is definitely a goal that would move Shorthorns forward. There are alot of good Shorthorn herds across North America that would help get us there. In Alberta alone if we were to capture 5% of the Angus bull market for commercial the breed would see explosive growth. Build it and they will come!

 

[justintime]

I don't think I'm trying to hide anything in regards to calving problems in the Shorthorn breed, but I sell quite a few Shorthorn bulls to commercial producers, and I am not getting any complaints about calving problems from these bulls. I am using many of the same bloodlines as many other producers and I do not see the huge calving issues many of you keep suggesting. I would agree that this breed is far from perfect, but we need to continue to work towards identifying genetics that have calving ease along with adequate growth. I hear my neighbors complaining more about calving problems with breeds like Simmental and even Angus than I have heard from those using Shorthorns. I do not think my cow herd is much different than most anyone else's, but in the last two years I have assisted 7 calves at birth from over 200 births. 4 of these were backwards calves, I was a malpresentation and 2 were calves that needed assistance.We have not assisted a first calf heifer calve in over two years, but I also am very careful what sires are used on them.  That works out to over 98% unassisted births. Maybe part of the reason we don't seem to have many issues is that we run our cows on a commercial basis and our cows get lots of exercise. I keep hearing about these monster calves and I am just not seeing them here. In the past 5 years, we have sold 168 bulls and I can honestly say I have not had 1 complaint from a bull buyer about calving problems. We have two commercial producers who have each purchased 17 bulls from us in the past 10 years. Both of these producers also buy bulls from other breeds as well, and they have consistently told me that there are fewer problems from the Shorthorns than from the other breeds. One of these producers ran a Shorthorn bull and a Polled hereford bull together in one pasture last year, and he told me that he wished the Shorthorn had bred all the cows as he pulled almost every calf from the P Hereford bull. Maybe I have just been lucky. I have posted this comment before on SP and I know that there are several on here that think I am making these comments up but it is the absolute truth. In the past several years, we have also maintained purebred herds of 6 different breeds here. I will stand the Shorthorns beside any other breed when it comes to calving problems. All these herds have now been dispersed, except for our Shorthorn herd. The last herd to be dispersed was our herd of 100 Charolais cows. The last year we calved the Charolais herd, our vet bill for calving related issues was over $3200 of which only $420 was related to a c-section on a Shorthorn with a twisted uterus. We never had a vet assisted birth in our Shorthorns until the third calf crop after the Charolais were gone.
Yes, there are probably lots of sires in the Shorthorn breed that are harder calving, but I submit that there are also lots in many other breeds. I keep hearing friends who have Angus herds complaining about calves over 110 lbs ( and some over 120 lbs) from some well known Angus sires. Just a few days ago, a leading Angus breeder near here, told me he didn't even turn one of the $30,000 Angus herd sires he had, as his calves were too big at birth to be saleable in his bull sale. This is not just a Shorthorn issue. IMO, there are so many Shorthorn sires today that offer respectable calving ease, that anyone who continues to use the bulls who are known for calving harder, only have themselves to blame. My bull market is a very valuable part of my annual income, so I would be rather stupid to lie about calving issues or birth weights. Bad news travels faster than the speed of sound, and repeat customers usually suggest that you are doiung something close to right.  The percentaqe of our bulls that sell to repeat customers continues to increase every year.
If you are convinced that this is a major issue in the breed, do something to change this. I agree with Okotoks.... built it and they will come. It is not rocket science!

 

[linnettejane]

this response is geared towards the american shorthorn association and its members....(not directed to the friends up north, i know nothing about your deal, and will not claim to!)

angus bull - proven calving ease-

Production
          CED BW  WW  YW    SC    Milk
Mean  14  -0.7  41      61    0.15  5
Acc  0.84  0.93  0.90  0.86  0.84  0.81

sired more than 20,000 calves!!! 

i dare say, there isnt a shorthorn bull (american bred) that even comes close to having this many progeny...when they (angus peeps)  say this bull above is a calving ease specialist, i believe them!  they have the data to back it up!  problem with the whole shorthorn calving ease deal...there isnt a bull that has this kind of data backing him up (jpj is the closest i could think of, and he only has around 1700 progeny, im sure if there is one, someone will bring it up)....im sorry to say, but the truth is...we, the american shorthorn consumer, have to go on the breeders word saying their bull is calving ease, based on the 20+ calves they have had within their own herd (or from their friends herd.......on a side note:  have you ever went thru the progeny lists of a bull you were interested in and noted the bw's on the calves...even noted who the calves were registered by?  interesting that all the calves associated with the owner or those that run in their circle have low birth weights, but then the guy out in left field has the 120 lbers....just somethin' to think about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! even the president of the association thinks we all should be thinkin' about it, in a round about way...so....when you have a 120lber out of your buddies bull, are you going to report it as 120lber????  or will you do him a favor and knock off a little???) 
 
........................................................................................as an american shorthorn consumer...i will never jack a 120 lb calf out of one of my heifers again because "everybody" said that bull was calving ease and they had like 20 calves born unassisted under 85 lbs...id be stupid to not just go with an angus, a true proven angus, for a first calf..............

there...i said my peace...

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

now I agree that other breeds have some bw issues, but if it isn't a issue in the shorthorn breed then why is it so many people think so?  I would like to say that we as a breed will have a problem till the average producer doesn't associate Shorthorns=Big BW's so as a breed we cant just have the same size calves as the other breeds.  They will have to be smaller on average to dismiss that association.

 

[Okotoks]

this response is geared towards the american shorthorn association and its members....(not directed to the friends up north, i know nothing about your deal, and will not claim to!)

angus bull - proven calving ease-

Production
          CED BW   WW   YW     SC    Milk
Mean  14  -0.7   41       61    0.15   5
Acc  0.84  0.93  0.90  0.86  0.84  0.81

sired more than 20,000 calves!!! 

i dare say, there isnt a shorthorn bull (american bred) that even comes close to having this many progeny...when they (angus peeps)  say this bull above is a calving ease specialist, i believe them!  they have the data to back it up!  problem with the whole shorthorn calving ease deal...there isnt a bull that has this kind of data backing him up (jpj is the closest i could think of, and he only has around 1700 progeny, im sure if there is one, someone will bring it up)....im sorry to say, but the truth is...we, the american shorthorn consumer, have to go on the breeders word saying their bull is calving ease, based on the 20+ calves they have had within their own herd (or from their friends herd.......on a side note:  have you ever went thru the progeny lists of a bull you were interested in and noted the bw's on the calves...even noted who the calves were registered by?  interesting that all the calves associated with the owner or those that run in their circle have low birth weights, but then the guy out in left field has the 120 lbers....just somethin' to think about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! even the president of the association thinks we all should be thinkin' about it, in a round about way...so....when you have a 120lber out of your buddies bull, are you going to report it as 120lber????  or will you do him a favor and knock off a little???) 
   
........................................................................................as an american shorthorn consumer...i will never jack a 120 lb calf out of one of my heifers again because "everybody" said that bull was calving ease and they had like 20 calves born unassisted under 85 lbs...id be stupid to not just go with an angus, a true proven angus, for a first calf..............

there...i said my peace...

You make some very good points. When a bull is used a lot AI the EPD's mean a lot more. As shorthorn breeders we all need to collect more data to help make our EPD;s more relevant. There are herds all across North America that have bloodlines of Shorthorn cattle that are calving ease. Some of these breeders are low profile but part of your solution might be within a half days drive of your door. It seems that JPJ is working for a lot of people but there are other bloodlines that will also work. I know I don;t get to see as many herds as I used to but it really is a good way to find out what's out there. I used to get the perception that everyone in the US was using the same show pedigrees but I think there were a lot of people doing their own thing ignoring the winners circle. The one thing I noticed in the last Shorthorn Country was a lot of different bulls of different bloodlines being advertised.

 

[JTM]

this response is geared towards the american shorthorn association and its members....(not directed to the friends up north, i know nothing about your deal, and will not claim to!)

angus bull - proven calving ease-

Production
          CED BW   WW   YW     SC    Milk
Mean  14  -0.7   41       61    0.15   5
Acc  0.84  0.93  0.90  0.86  0.84  0.81

sired more than 20,000 calves!!! 

i dare say, there isnt a shorthorn bull (american bred) that even comes close to having this many progeny...when they (angus peeps)  say this bull above is a calving ease specialist, i believe them!  they have the data to back it up!  problem with the whole shorthorn calving ease deal...there isnt a bull that has this kind of data backing him up (jpj is the closest i could think of, and he only has around 1700 progeny, im sure if there is one, someone will bring it up)....im sorry to say, but the truth is...we, the american shorthorn consumer, have to go on the breeders word saying their bull is calving ease, based on the 20+ calves they have had within their own herd (or from their friends herd.......on a side note:  have you ever went thru the progeny lists of a bull you were interested in and noted the bw's on the calves...even noted who the calves were registered by?  interesting that all the calves associated with the owner or those that run in their circle have low birth weights, but then the guy out in left field has the 120 lbers....just somethin' to think about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! even the president of the association thinks we all should be thinkin' about it, in a round about way...so....when you have a 120lber out of your buddies bull, are you going to report it as 120lber????  or will you do him a favor and knock off a little???) 
   
........................................................................................as an american shorthorn consumer...i will never jack a 120 lb calf out of one of my heifers again because "everybody" said that bull was calving ease and they had like 20 calves born unassisted under 85 lbs...id be stupid to not just go with an angus, a true proven angus, for a first calf..............

there...i said my peace...

Agree with you! Good point. I loved the article in the Shorthorn Country by the President. I sent him a personal email thanking him for writing that article. This is a major problem and I'm afraid that even breeding some of these show genetics to proven angus calving ease bloodlines won't work as often as we would like. I'm hoping to find a really good Shorthorn calving ease bull born in 2011. I think we have some options now. I believe it may be a better bet to go with a good purebred calving ease Shorthorn instead of crossing them on the first calf, at least on show heifer genetics. I'm afraid the crossing of breeds may add some additional pounds at birth.

 

[Doc]

I believe it may be a better bet to go with a good purebred calving ease Shorthorn instead of crossing them on the first calf, at least on show heifer genetics. I'm afraid the crossing of breeds may add some additional pounds at birth.

JTM, I gotta agree with you on that one. I've thought that for a while. I mean isn't that the whole idea in a commercial herd with a heterozygous cross =  to adds pounds & performance?? I'm a small breeder, but I refuse to use a non Shorthorn bull on heifers just for the calving ease option. I know what people are going to say that if I'm a small breeder I can afford to watch them closer & etc. The truth is I work a bunch & don't always know when I may have to go out of town, so I'm not always home to watch them. I think there is options for heifers with Shorthorn bulls. I'll just dance with the one that brung me. JMO.

 

[nate53]

Yes the heterosis can add a couple lbs., I've had several nothing alarming actually they still weighed considereably less than their straight bred counterparts.  My experience has been the shorthorns calve in nothing flat or  the calf is backwards or leg back or just to big.  I had two Pure Solution daughters (I know , I bought as calves before I knew anything about Shorthorns and bought off looks and actual wgts., which was upper 70's for B.W.) calve over the past month, both had backwards calves, one was 100lb. and one was 128lbs. these were bred to a calving ease shorthorn bull. If the 100lber would not have been backwards she would have had him fine, would have probally been considered calving ease since unassited.   And yet the first two calves out of each of these animals was 80 -85 lb. range and they were bred to calving ease black angus.  These two young cows are pretty good animals outside of their rescent troubles with their first straight bred calves, they have good calves, good udders, excellent to work with, but seem to have a B.W. - CE problem part of the time at least with the straightbreds.  THe (my) problem is you never know when those certain b.w., CE genes are going to jump out of the pedigree and bite you, whether it is one or several generations down the road.  
So my uncle is a vet down south and when I first started with these genetics he stated that the crossbred calves would probally get a few more lbs. at birth vrs. the straight bred.  So my experience is yes they have a few more lbs. vrs. angus on angus, but are considereably lighter than short on short, if bred to true calving ease genetics (epd.s)  like Linnettejane posted.    I will add this has just been my experience and my shorthorn experience is basically nothing compared to most everybody else on this site.  We do have a couple hundred head of blacks though.

 

[JTM]

Nate53, that is good information. My experience this year was with my recently purchased Black Angus bull that bred some heifers last year. He is like top 1% in CE and top 2% in BW in the Angus breed(projected). He bred a couple of Maine/angus crosses, two purebred Proud Jazz daughters, and a Bloodstone and a Solution heifer. All calves came unassisted and about 75 lbs except for the Bloodstone and the Solution. Bloodstone heifers calf was backwards, already dead inside of her when we seen her in labor, and had to pull the 95 lb calf out in pieces. The Solution daughter's calf was a 96lb heifer that we found half way out of her already dead, pulled it the rest of the way but she never got up after about 10 days and had to be put down. Both first time experiences for us and first time calving out Bloodstone and Solution heifers.  <rock>

 

[sjcattleco]

Want to fix Shorthorn CE problems?????

1.STOP BREEDING TO BULLS OVER FRAME 6. its a proven fact that no one had ever sold cattle by the inch! Breed to a bull that will cut 3 inches of air out from underneath a calf and not loose 1 lb of performance and you will be AMAZED at the benefits.

2. STOP BREEDING TO BULLS THAT PROMOTE BONE AND HAIR.... BONE is a negative  trait period!  Coarse boned animals have poor carcass quality and bulls that are big heavy boned sire calves that are not easily born!  TH / PHA??? nuf said

3. QUIT FEEDING THE COWS!...... If your wonderful show cow needs to be fed grain at anytime during her productive life  SEND her worthless A$$ to town! Esp now when they are worth over $1000 at the local market. Grain promotes problems! period

4.EDUCATE YOURSELF ABOUT BALANCE...These "Big" fish in the shorthorn breed put these sale catalogs together and they feature these little heifers that look freaky and they advertise them as " LONG GOOSEY FRONTED" like its a good trait... Guess what???  its not!  that promotes high maintainence which leads to hard calving. learning what a beef cow and a beef bull is really supposed to look like will solve alot of problems.

5.MASCULINITY... Masculine bulls produce fertile and efficient daughters and masculine sons.  90% of the Shorthorn bulls seriously lack masculinity!  Feminine bulls or bulls that would have made a fancy show steer produce poor quality daughters and poorer quality sons.

6. LEARN ABOUT LINEBREEDING..... Linebreeding is a lost art that should not be attempted by everyone... Linebreeding to "SHOW" genetics is a joke. Linebreeding to a crossbred is a complete waste of time.  want to move calving ease in your herd in a positive direction? Buy semen or better yet buy a bull from a breeder that is at least 3 generations linebred,  the herd is managed like a bunch of commercial cows, the cows are adapted to YOUR enviroment, his cows are at least 3 inches shorter than yours and you trust him to sell you a bull calf under 85lbs  BW regardless of cow age.  That bull will make a positive difference in your program.


Now all you guys can tear this apart all you want but I know these are points that are pretty dang hard to argue against!

 

[Will]

Want to fix Shorthorn CE problems?????

1.STOP BREEDING TO BULLS OVER FRAME 6. its a proven fact that no one had ever sold cattle by the inch! Breed to a bull that will cut 3 inches of air out from underneath a calf and not loose 1 lb of performance and you will be AMAZED at the benefits.

2. STOP BREEDING TO BULLS THAT PROMOTE BONE AND HAIR.... BONE is a negative  trait period!  Coarse boned animals have poor carcass quality and bulls that are big heavy boned sire calves that are not easily born!  TH / PHA??? nuf said

3. QUIT FEEDING THE COWS!...... If your wonderful show cow needs to be fed grain at anytime during her productive life  SEND her worthless A$$ to town! Esp now when they are worth over $1000 at the local market. Grain promotes problems! period

4.EDUCATE YOURSELF ABOUT BALANCE...These "Big" fish in the shorthorn breed put these sale catalogs together and they feature these little heifers that look freaky and they advertise them as " LONG GOOSEY FRONTED" like its a good trait... Guess what???  its not!  that promotes high maintainence which leads to hard calving. learning what a beef cow and a beef bull is really supposed to look like will solve alot of problems.

5.MASCULINITY... Masculine bulls produce fertile and efficient daughters and masculine sons.  90% of the Shorthorn bulls seriously lack masculinity!  Feminine bulls or bulls that would have made a fancy show steer produce poor quality daughters and poorer quality sons.

6. LEARN ABOUT LINEBREEDING..... Linebreeding is a lost art that should not be attempted by everyone... Linebreeding to "SHOW" genetics is a joke. Linebreeding to a crossbred is a complete waste of time.  want to move calving ease in your herd in a positive direction? Buy semen or better yet buy a bull from a breeder that is at least 3 generations linebred,  the herd is managed like a bunch of commercial cows, the cows are adapted to YOUR enviroment, his cows are at least 3 inches shorter than yours and you trust him to sell you a bull calf under 85lbs  BW regardless of cow age.  That bull will make a positive difference in your program.


Now all you guys can tear this apart all you want but I know these are points that are pretty dang hard to argue against!

Hey Scott it is good to see you comment.  How is everything going?  Do you have a good set of spring borns?