Shorthorn weaning weights.

[uluru]

I have the semen on the Murudale Buster 14K son that Tim Loudon had at his place that we showed at Louisville back a few years ago.
He is Uluru Buster 6T  ASA x4140711  UBR6T
There is semen in the US at Nichols in Iowa
Visit my website www.shorthorns.ca

Bob

 

[3 Eagles shorthorns]

Thanks for the suggestions. I was wrong in saying there was WO divedend in my herd sires pedigree it was actually jr power play 26b,which I was told had some growth by could sire some big birthweight calves.. And Mark I seen you bring up the badland dazzler bull a couple times, he is on the bottom side of my sires pedigree.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Thanks for the suggestions. I was wrong in saying there was WO divedend in my herd sires pedigree it was actually jr power play 26b,which I was told had some growth by could sire some big birthweight calves.. And Mark I seen you bring up the badland dazzler bull a couple times, he is on the bottom side of my sires pedigree.////// Dazzler is certainly one of the all-time great commercially oriented Shorthorn bulls-cow maker-and hes in A LOT of performance pedigrees-2 National Champion Shorthorn bulls have been a son-and a grandson as well. You really ought to look at ULURUS site at Buster 6T-hes got the look -and is an easy calver-and on the Gold Breeding-Enticer deals (Waukaru bulls-Dazzler by Deertrail Awesome HC Bluebook by Orion etc) he would really work jmo-Ive seen him for wut its worth- or hed go  vice versa on the females you produce. O0

 

[GM]

My personal favorite in the Gold Line is one I negleted to mention-HC Goldcard-and Orion Son -just havent seen the calves, but he and the cattle behind him fit my bill on these type of cows. PATENT HOWEVER HAS HUGE GROW-AND IS A HUGE BULL.He would make 2 of alot of the 5 frame Jungles et al bulls-not saying thats bad or good-just the facts.He was too big for Shadybrook which I heard from a relable source: but they have pretty big cattle to begin with.-But I think  he would be a meet in the middle sire on these type of cows, and with the depth the cows have-wouldnt be gawky looking etc.  O0

Curious if you or someone else can elaborate on what you mean by Patent being a "HUGE" bull - mature size, calving size, frame?  He's listed as a 6 frame score and has an 84 pound BW.  Seems reasonable.  But his WW of 900 pounds and his YW of 1,560 are truly huge....but apparently on a 6 frame.  Is that for real?  That much weight on a 6 frame with a below average BW seems ideal, but unheard of.  If true it is remarkable.  I'm not doubting the accuracy of the numbers because Waukaru is the most upstanding herd of performance shorthorns in the business.  Just curious what you mean by "huge".

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I have heard guesstimates of his mature wieght headed towards 3000 pounds more or less-which is ideal on moderate cows if the bws arent bad. Enticer or ones with alot of his breeding made them like that sometimes-Deertrail Awsome would be an example-biggest bull Ive ever seen O0

 

[beebe]

If you use a 3000 pound bull on what you call moderate cows, what size cows do you end up with?

 

[Duncraggan]

My personal favorite in the Gold Line is one I negleted to mention-HC Goldcard-and Orion Son -just havent seen the calves, but he and the cattle behind him fit my bill on these type of cows. PATENT HOWEVER HAS HUGE GROW-AND IS A HUGE BULL.He would make 2 of alot of the 5 frame Jungles et al bulls-not saying thats bad or good-just the facts.He was too big for Shadybrook which I heard from a relable source: but they have pretty big cattle to begin with.-But I think  he would be a meet in the middle sire on these type of cows, and with the depth the cows have-wouldnt be gawky looking etc.  O0

Curious if you or someone else can elaborate on what you mean by Patent being a "HUGE" bull - mature size, calving size, frame?  He's listed as a 6 frame score and has an 84 pound BW.  Seems reasonable.  But his WW of 900 pounds and his YW of 1,560 are truly huge....but apparently on a 6 frame.  Is that for real?  That much weight on a 6 frame with a below average BW seems ideal, but unheard of.  If true it is remarkable.  I'm not doubting the accuracy of the numbers because Waukaru is the most upstanding herd of performance shorthorns in the business.  Just curious what you mean by "huge".

If you look at his Australian Breedplan EBV's, with very high accuracy, he does seem to breed large progeny compared to the breed average. That said, my big may be someone else's small. Pictures I have seen of his progeny indicate that he seems to be breeding magnificent progeny. See Sprys Patent's Ace G38! There are Youtube videos too.
I can't post the link because I don't know how, but Google him, and look at his abri information and you will get an idea.

 

[Okotoks]

I am curious to what purebred shorthorn breeders are getting for weaning weights without creep. Has anyone had luck producing a big spread (epds) bull? These older genetic cows I purchased from wally are a nice set of cows, good udders, gentle, moderate framed, traveling the big pastures good, and have a nice set of thick little calves on them that appear to be put together about right, but lack the explosive growth that I'm getting out of my simmy, saler, or angus calves. I just recently bought 9 replacment heifers from him that are sure by a clipper king USA son. The heifers are very deep bodied set of heifers. So in all I am pleased with the shorthorn female and would much rather handle them then I would my other cows but I am concerned on growth.

The growth of some of your older genetic shorthorns will not be as good as many of the current bloodlines. As Xbar pointed out there are herds that have selected for performance. We are using a bull with some of the same bloodlines as Xbar's. This bull's adjusted wieghts are BW 85 lbs, WW 800 lbs, and yearling 1188lbs. You should be able to find bloodlines with performance to blend with your older genetic females. Are the Angus bloodlines you are using also from the 60's and 70's ?

 

[librarian]

Eagle- this sale is over, but I think it's worthwhile studying the cattle in it and how they are bred. Then maybe a road trip to start looking at different herds.
http://www.donsavageauctions.com/DSCatalogues/CAdvantage16_web.pdf

 

[kiblercattle]

From pictures alone does anyone see very many bulls in that sale catAlog that anyone would use. To me there are some really terrible looking Bulls in there.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I think a lot are just bad pictures. It's amazing to me how hard it is to truly represent a bull with a picture.

 

[3 Eagles shorthorns]

Thanks librarian! There are some bulls in there I think I would be open to using. As was stated it appears the quality of the pictures is lacking. Does anyone have a report on how these bulls sold? Also, how much is involved with getting these Bulls into the states?

 

[librarian]

From pictures alone does anyone see very many bulls in that sale catAlog that anyone would use. To me there are some really terrible looking Bulls in there.

I felt the range of quality and the disparity been the pictures and what one would expect from the pedigrees was the most educational thing about this catalog. I like less professional photos because they can be more honest about faults. Also sometimes a lousy photo still captures an animals strong points in ways that more stereotypical sale photos lose.
I just thought it was a cross section of some regional animals that were more commercially oriented and an intro to some breeders using genetics that might work for 3E.  Maybe not for increasing growth, but for building his cow herd. I liked the bulls with Australian influence.

 

[Lucky_P]

librarian,
Waukaru Coppertop 464 and JSF Navigator T2 both have the Australian sire Dunbeacon Venture as MGS - and both bring substantial growth (WW epd) to the table.  While I've not (yet) used Navigator, the Coppertop daughters here are fabulous females.

 

[Medium Rare]

librarian,
Waukaru Coppertop 464 and JSF Navigator T2 both have the Australian sire Dunbeacon Venture as MGS - and both bring substantial growth (WW epd) to the table.  While I've not (yet) used Navigator, the Coppertop daughters here are fabulous females.

I think you'll find the navigator females are pretty typical of the Dunbeacon Venture lineage. I've only seen a few, but have heard from several people who have been really impressed with how they matured.

I always thought NPS Governor, a Dunbeacon x Improver son, should be able to produce some nice females.

 

[Okotoks]

librarian,
Waukaru Coppertop 464 and JSF Navigator T2 both have the Australian sire Dunbeacon Venture as MGS - and both bring substantial growth (WW epd) to the table.  While I've not (yet) used Navigator, the Coppertop daughters here are fabulous females.

Dunbeacon Venture's paternal grandsire is HS Instant Enticer and his maternal great grandsire is HS Rolex. I think you will find lots of North American genetics in Aussie pedigrees they have just selected for different traits. The shows there are more for show casing a breeding program so older bulls and cow calf pairs are much more likely to be champions.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

If Rolex was a Mark 4 its the Enticer x Mark 4 cross-which worked well-so did Rodeo Drive x Mark 4 O0

 

[r.n.reed]

Our goal for weaning weights are focused on the cow rather than the calf.We want 50%plus of her body weight at weaning and we want a calf every 365 days or less in a low input scenario.Double Brute pictured below is one of our homebred herdsires that we are using to produce this kind of female and narrow the range of finding optimum production for us. We are honored that two respected Montana herds,Ralph Larson and the Dover Ranch are using sons of the Brute this year in their programs.

 

[librarian]

<cowboy> et tu rn

 

[Duncraggan]

Masculine, wedge-shaped bulls produce feminine, fertile females. Good one there r.n.reed!