Show Heifer Agreement

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JSchroeder

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I've agreed in principle with a local junior to show a heifer in exchange for her first calf.  The deal seems good to both of us )she gets to show a heifer and have her first calf, I get the heifer shown and fed properly while only giving up the "calving ease" calf) but we'd like to put something in writing.

If you've done this kind of thing, what kinds of issues have come up?  What kinds of things need to be made clear before we move forward?
 

shortyjock89

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Who pays certain bills, i.e. vet bills, if she does really well and wins a big show, who gets the banner and prizes, who is responsible for getting her bred on time, and I'm sure there are others, but that's what I can think of right now.  We're showing a heifer for someone, and it's been really easy for us, I would gladly do it again.
 

chambero

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That's a pretty good deal for the exhibitor.  Back in the day my sister and I showed them for other people and we didn't get anything out of it other than our "winnings".  We paid everything on upkeep.  With what show heifers cost, I still don't think it was a bad deal for us. 

However, I think it is best to put in writing even though we never did.  I'd insert specifics on how long she is going to keep the heifer to show, etc.  What happens if heifer or calf dies/cripples during calving?  Can you take heifer back if not being fed/taken care of properly, etc.  Just spell it out.
 

Simmymom1

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This whole past year my daughter has shown someone else's heifer.  The boy that owns the heifer showed the mother and did very well with her, but he is now in college and wanted his heifer shown.  My daughter had shown some interest last year wanting to get into the show circuit and get a nice heifer.  We wanted to make sure she was serious before we spent alot of money on  a "nice" heifer.  We never put anything in writing, but we paid for everything and she got to keep all of her winnings.  That sure would have "sweetened" the deal if we would get her first calf but that was not in the deal.  The heifer is going back to her "owner" next week and we are now shopping for that "nice" heifer.  I would say get something in writing because we did have some disagreements about the type of feed they wanted us to feed versus the type of feed we were feeding her, they were both good feed.  It also made my daughter very nervous when the father of the son who owned the heifer would come to some shows because he would get upset and very verbal if she did something wrong when showing the heifer (she was just starting out), he finally quit coming to the shows after I kind of told him to back off of her.  The son that owned the heifer really was very nice and ended up helping my daughter and showing her things that we did not know to show her.  The family ended up being very good friends of ours, they even let us borrow some of their equipment being that we were just getting started out.  Anyway, I am grateful for having done it this way because we now know she is serious about showing and she has become a very good little showman.  Good Luck
 

Jill

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I'm sure I'm going to get blasted on this, but that's ok.  I have been on both sides of this fence, we have had a heifer shown for us and we have had heifers on loan shown against us.  We started in this buisiness from square one, didn't know a thing and didn't own a thing, we invested thousands of dollars and several years learning so that our kids could show our cattle and I can tell you that it is very frustrating and offensive to be beat by a heifer that the person showing doesn't own.  Whatever you do, I wouldn't advertise that this kids doesn't own the calf, it is a fast way to hard feelings for those showing against them.  Just my 2 cents

Whatever you do put EVERYTHING in writing.
 

NHR

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Jill said:
I'm sure I'm going to get blasted on this, but that's ok.  I have been on both sides of this fence, we have had a heifer shown for us and we have had heifers on loan shown against us.  We started in this buisiness from square one, didn't know a thing and didn't own a thing, we invested thousands of dollars and several years learning so that our kids could show our cattle and I can tell you that it is very frustrating and offensive to be beat by a heifer that the person showing doesn't own.  Whatever you do, I wouldn't advertise that this kids doesn't own the calf, it is a fast way to hard feelings for those showing against them.  Just my 2 cents

Whatever you do put EVERYTHING in writing.

It is frustrating. We own everything we show but i would bet 50% of the heifers out there in the show ring are owned or co-owned by someone else. It just drives me nuts to see someone showing a heifer for someone else especially when the exhibitor only sees the heifer during a show.

Of course i would love to find someone to show our heifers but i would make it worth their time by giving them the first calf or if something happens to the calf i would give them another in its place, i believe this is a good way to help a young exhibitor who is willing to do the work a chance to get into the cattle business. But i dont believe in just having someone show for me with no reward or work by the exhibitor. I guess what I am saying is that if the exhibitor is doing the work and is getting a start in cattle in exchange then I dont have anything against this. But I would place it in writing.
 

Simmymom1

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Jill said:
I'm sure I'm going to get blasted on this, but that's ok.  I have been on both sides of this fence, we have had a heifer shown for us and we have had heifers on loan shown against us.  We started in this buisiness from square one, didn't know a thing and didn't own a thing, we invested thousands of dollars and several years learning so that our kids could show our cattle and I can tell you that it is very frustrating and offensive to be beat by a heifer that the person showing doesn't own.  Whatever you do, I wouldn't advertise that this kids doesn't own the calf, it is a fast way to hard feelings for those showing against them.  Just my 2 cents

Whatever you do put EVERYTHING in writing.




Jill - I really never looked at it that way, but I do agree with you.  I can tell you it was like my daughter did "own" the heifer for the whole year.  The heifer stayed at our place, my daughter did all of the work including teaching the heifer to set up and be a show heifer, she fed, watered and cleaned her pen every day.  She was not one of those kids that would just show up at the show and show the animal, that I don't think is right.  All in all, I think we made the right choice for my daughter, because now I know she really wants to do it and I am happy about that.  Believe me, we put alot of money into something that was not really ours, but happy that we did it.  I do agree also, put EVERYTHING in writing. 
 

chambero

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I was one of those kids that wouldn't have had the money to buy most of them myself.  I had a guy that took me in and I spent the vast majority of every free hour throughout high school taking care of my calves at his barn. I learned to show pretty good in a hurry and a couple of different breeders in OK would send heifers down specifically for me to show just because people figured out I worked my tail off with them.  None of them were ever great ones, but I had a couple of major show breed champions and learned a whole lot.  I never got to keep a calf or payment of anykind, but I still think I got a good enough deal.  I like to think I made the most of the chance and don't mind returning the favor in kind now that I'm on the other side of that fence.  We never had anything in writing though.  I would now. 
 

JSchroeder

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The calving issue was my main concern.  What would you guys suggest for complications?

To address the other issue, it would have been nice if you would start a separate thread instead of hijacking this one.

This kid is a young girl our family has known through church and isn’t going to invest thousands of dollars in a show heifer any time soon.  They don’t have land to run cattle, just enough to raise a show heifer (the resulting calf will run in our operation).  She’s a hard working young lady that doesn’t have parents capable of affording a quality show heifer and I’m not going to feel the slightest bit guilty for helping her out.  It’s also not a secret in her county that “sponsors” have kids show heifers for them, it’s common practice.
 

Simmymom1

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JSchroeder said:
The calving issue was my main concern.  What would you guys suggest for complications?

To address the other issue, it would have been nice if you would start a separate thread instead of hijacking this one.

This kid is a young girl our family has known through church and isn’t going to invest thousands of dollars in a show heifer any time soon.  They don’t have land to run cattle, just enough to raise a show heifer (the resulting calf will run in our operation).  She’s a hard working young lady that doesn’t have parents capable of affording a quality show heifer and I’m not going to feel the slightest bit guilty for helping her out.  It’s also not a secret in her county that “sponsors” have kids show heifers for them, it’s common practice.


I think you sound like a nice person by saying you would give her a calf out of the heifer if she shows her.  I was kind of hoping that the people we showed for would give us a calf, my daughter got so attached to the heifer.  But they never brought it up, so I guess they did not want to do that, that was totally their choice and I stand by it.  The girl that you are helping out  sounds like a good kid and the thought of her getting a calf out of your heifer will make her very happy. 

Oh, sorry if I hijacked your thread, it was not meant that way...
 

Jill

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I didn't hijack your thread, you asked what kind of issues come up.
It doesn't necessarily have to be calving, she could drop dead tomorrow, who shoulders the responsiblility, she may not turn out, the girl may loose interest and forget to feed her (that happened in our county and the people took the calf back) I was serious, you need EVERYTHING in writing.
 

JSchroeder

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Thanks for the advice, as you can see in the original post, we are putting it in writing and that's why I'm here.  We are looking for things we may not think of to put in writing.

You know which part of your reply I was speaking of.
 

chambero

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They don't sound like someone to me that probably has the experience to calve her out.  Why not put in writing that you'll be responsible for getting her bred and then bring her home to your place a month before her due date and you'll return her to the girl a couple of weeks or month after she calves.  That probably protects both of you.  If they haven't done it before, calving her out might be pretty stressful for the girl and flat traumatic if something bad happened.  I know people do it, but I don't think they need to be showed that close to calving anyway.
 

JSchroeder

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That's the plan, as soon as she's done in the Spring or before she calves she'll come back here.  I'll AI her to whatever bull we decide to go with.
 

AAOK

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I've "loaned" a Show heifer twice, and both times had a few unforseen complications.  I had everything that has been mentioned in this thread, and more, in writing.  Because of all the things that might go wrong on both ends, I don't believe it's possible to think of everything.  Most importantly, deal only with someone you trust, and who holds the same values as you.  Something will go awry, I'll assure you.  Both parties need to be flexible to those situations, and must aslo have a spirit of forgiveness.  Good Luck!  You can make it work to serve all well.

I do have to add that Jill makes a very valid point.  If your heifer turns out to be an exceptional Show Calf, be prepared to have your good name slandered.  This DOES make people mad!!  In my opinion, the best "loan agreements" will be those going to another State than your own. 
 
 

Joe Boy

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I have a niece who teaches Vo Ag and she asked me if I would be interested in getting a girl a loner.  I told her that we would put it in writing with her paying me $1 per pound and when it came back I would give her a $1 per pound.  I would have it for a month in breeding season (Nov. & Dec.), and get it back in the summer preparing for a September calf.  The girl did not have the $1 per pound or the registration transfer fees (one-way) as I would have them when it came back to my herd.  So we never got to the point of writing all this down.  My reason for the $1 per pound, was to cover my loss to some degree if something happened and to reward her for her feed bill and care.  My niece would have seen the work was done.

I did this often while raising sheep and it helped some kids to get a start and others to qualify for scholarships.  I did not do it for market lambs, only breeding lambs, but we had an agreed upon price if they took it to a show that allowed ewe's to show for market lambs and it made the sale.  I also gave many lambs to kids to show and sometimes they beat my kids.  Each kid had to do all their work and I simply gave advice.
 
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