Simmental color questions....

[Simmgal]

If I bred Voyager (Hetero) to a Red cow whose parents are both black, would I have a high chance of getting a red? I assume it would be pretty high, but didn't know what y'all thought about the matter..

 

[cowgirl864]

we have had two westfall voyager calves that were solid black, one out of a sim/angus with a bald face/udder and the other out of a purebred dream on, these calves were great, did well in the showring

 

[kfacres]

If I bred Voyager (Hetero) to a Red cow whose parents are both black, would I have a high chance of getting a red? I assume it would be pretty high, but didn't know what y'all thought about the matter..

basic punnet square says that you would get 50:50 chance of red/ black.. but 100% Red carrier (either red, or black).  Bb x bb

the parentage of the red cow-- means nothing since red is recessive.- other than both parents were red factors.

 

[Simmgal]

If I bred Voyager (Hetero) to a Red cow whose parents are both black, would I have a high chance of getting a red? I assume it would be pretty high, but didn't know what y'all thought about the matter..

basic punnet square says that you would get 50:50 chance of red/ black.. but 100% Red carrier (either red, or black).  Bb x bb

the parentage of the red cow-- means nothing since red is recessive.- other than both parents were red factors.

Thanks. I figured this would be the case. I wouldn't mind a red, but they dont sell or show good around here..

 

[leanbeef]

If I bred Voyager (Hetero) to a Red cow whose parents are both black, would I have a high chance of getting a red? I assume it would be pretty high, but didn't know what y'all thought about the matter..

basic punnet square says that you would get 50:50 chance of red/ black.. but 100% Red carrier (either red, or black).  Bb x bb

the parentage of the red cow-- means nothing since red is recessive.- other than both parents were red factors.

Thanks. I figured this would be the case. I wouldn't mind a red, but they dont sell or show good around here..

The only difference between a red out of two black parents and another red cow is that you know the one out of two black parents is a non diluter...meaning no dilution gene. If you breed to a black, you won't get a smoke. But bred to heterozygous black, the chances of getting black are no better than out of a red cow with a completely red pedigree.

 

[leanbeef]

Well, we pay a LOT of attention to EPD profiles...especially API. I think that's the most important number because it's a combination of a lot of important traits. We've used some Manifest and have several TNT Tankers on the ground now. I wasn't crazy about the Manifest calves at first...they grow fast and go through an awkward phase, I thought. But they do GROW and they have plenty of muscle. He works best on small frame, soft middled cows that need a touch of "umph" and don't need help with the milk EPD.

I think the Tankers are going to be a little more moderate and earlier which I like. He's another one that puts some gas in the tank, but he won't add milk according to his EPD. And his API isn't nearly what we'd like to see or use, but I think he was worth using some. Most of our cows are moderate in milk numbers and give plenty, so I haven't been tough on bulls with average milk numbers.

We've used Bettis and have Singletary calves coming this fall (full brother that I think is actually better than Bettis...new last spring with Genex). We're going pretty heavy with Top Grade this spring...he's a stout numbered 3/4 blood Upgrade son, and he's like a +8 on milk with a 150 API. And I love him in his photo. Check him out at http://www.rivercreekfarms.com/simmental-simangus-herd-bulls/mcm-top-grade-018x.html

Haven't seen him, but I like the Upgrades I have seen, and I trust what I've heard about him. We may use Upgrade this spring, but I'll have to watch the cow's numbers and make sure they can stand the mating on paper. I like the idea of using an Upgrade son and maybe hedging on his milk EPD a little. I'm a big fan of Olie and Legacy for making females...we're actually running an Olie son from 3C behind our AI program now.

If you're thinking about baldies, take a look at PRS Blazin' Hot & Longs Shear Pleasure. I'm also intrigued by the numbers on a Predestined son at Sunshine Farms called SSF Predistined U221 (yes, the name is misspelled in the ASA database). He's a blaze faced bull with really good EPD profile. He's a Predestined, though, so obviously a half blood. And if a 1/2 blood works, we'll probably be using some Sharper Image, but he's not gonna help your milk number, either.

I am trying to watch EPD profiles for this animal because I am trying to get a good bull out of her. I would want to be able to retain the animal for breeding purposes or to sell him to a breeder.

The Manifest calves that I have seen have not impressed me, but I do like the looks of his numbers. The cow could use some help with milk, and I do not think that Manifest will be the best fit there. The same is true for Tanker.

I have heavily considered Top Grade, but his EPD’s seem too good to be true. I also could not find semen on him, but maybe I am looking in the wrong area. He was a top pick earlier on in the year, but then I was unsure about unproven EPD’s.

I love the Upgrades that I have seen and my daughter out of him is impressive, but I would need more milk than his number suggests he has. He is on the short list, but not a top pick.

I used Olie on one of mine and the calf I got was C-R-A-Z-Y out of a very tame cow. This was not the first instance that I have heard of in my area. I also don’t know about the look he throws. He is an option though because of his EPD profile. Which Legacy? G151? I am ordering him with my next order, but I wasn’t sure about using him on this particular female.

My only problem with Shear Pleasure and Blazin Hot are their unproven numbers. They look too good to be true, similar to how Grandmaster and Added Value were a while ago. They are definitely on my watch list, but I am not sure about using them this season. A friend of mine owns a share in Blazin Hot and I am keeping in touch with him for calf reports. I would like to keep this animal as a Purebred so I would be looking at anything ¾ or purebred.

Thanks for your reports! Grandmaster is another top pick for this particular female because of his CE and Milk, but I was interested in Lucky Man for his growth if I am looking at keeping a bull.

It isn't easy to find that combination. Especially in a purebred bull. I think adding the Angus and looking at 1/2 or ever 3/4 bulls helps balance the numbers a lotta times.

I did see a few pictures and videos of some Manifest calves were NOT impressive at all. I saw those after we had used him and before our calves hit the ground. Luckily, we had used him on the right cows, I think. I haven't seen many others beside what we had born, and they did well. Again...I think you have to use him on soft middled, small framed cows to get along. He'll add the grow, but they'll get big and flat if you use him on the wrong type of cows.

I don't think the Tankers are going to be the same type. We'll see...we have a few on the ground, but they're just babies. I expect a little more front end on those calves, and some people mind that more than I do. Honestly, though, so far, our calves don't look like they're going to be as sloppy fronted as I expected. The heifers are pretty fancy, and that's mostly what we got. I think we only had two bulls, maybe...

I have the same notion about Top Grade. Fingers crossed... I'm not using him just because of his numbers...I like the bull in his pictures, I trust the people I've talked to about him, and I really like the sires way deep in his pedigree...Upgrade, Olie, Legacy...I've seen enough out of those bulls to pique my interest in this bull. And to take a chance on him. Even if his numbers slide a little, they'd have to take a deep plunge to get bad!

I never bought in to the Grandmaster thing and I guess I'm still not a fan. Never had one and haven't seen that many. I've heard a few people say they didn't like what they had, but he seems really popular on here, so apparently he's working somewhere. He's not a bull that should improve any performance numbers, though, if that's what you wanna do.

As for Shear Pleasure and Blazin' Hot, we also own a piece of BH. I have a few fall borns out of him and I really like them...better than I expected to, actually. They're good doing, fast growing calves with plenty of muscle, rib and bone. Mine are not fancy fronted, but I don't mind that when calves grow like these have. And I'm not talking about frame...they're deep and wide...good doing calves. I think his numbers might actually get a little better for performance in time. I know mine will ratio pretty well in this group.

I expect Shear Pleasure's numbers to level out some. I don't think they drop like Added Values did, but the calves I have are moderate. They're nice, but they're not gonna wean off at the top of the group. My Blazin' Hots will definitely out weigh them. As will some of my Renditions. I did get to see several of those calves at Gibbs, though...they leased Shear Pleasure and used him on about 30 purebred cows...calves came last fall, and I saw them in November. They were a decent set of calves.

I also have a few Added Values, and I expect his numbers might bounce back a little, but who knows. I think he's going to breed like his daddy...super calving ease with unpredictable performance. I have a couple that are doing really well, and we have one that came out TINY and just looks like something out of a super calving ease bull. It's gonna take her while to make something. If she ever does...

If you wanna use a baldy, I would say either Blazin' Hot or Shear Pleasure. If you really wanna beef up the EPD profile, I'd probably try Top Grade and hope he holds up. I got our semen through Marty Ropp, but the bull is supposed to be in Genex's line-up this spring.