Sire to Dam Size Question??

[hntwhitetail]

With all of the newer bulls being shorter or a smaller frame score, I thought I would throw this question out there.  What is the largest height difference that a bull can naturally sire a cow?  This would be on flat ground w/ no holes also....  ???  Wondering if the newer sires would have to be a.i. use only on some cows w/ pedigrees just a few years old.

 

[leanbeef]

This question makes me laugh... I guess it CAN be an issue if your bull can't reach your cows, but you might be surprised at how much difference a bull can make up for, even on relatively flat ground. I used a pretty moderate framed yearling bull to clean up some cows last fall, and I only had two that didn't stick AI, so he didn't have much work to do, but he got both of em bred. And that was on what I would consider pretty flat ground as well. He'll jump a little to get to her if he has any gumption at all.  I don't know that anybody can tell you "this much difference" in inches. I think you'll just have to turn him out and see what happens. If you have extremely big cows and want to use a really small framed bull, you might need to think about AI.

 

[kfacres]

I have seen yearling Jersey bulls service mature Holstein cows with success.

An old timer once told me, that you should be able to walk into a group of livestock and be able to easily pick out the herdsire-- he should either tower (mature) over everything else, or he should be dwarfed (first year young-un).  

In the sheep world, the Montadale breed was created using Cheviot rams (<30" @ shoulder) (perhaps the smallest breed of dual purpose sheep known) mated to Columbia ewes (~40" @ shoulder) (without a doubt the largest breed of sheep known in the world).  

I guess what I'm saying is, if the little guy wants it bad enough- he'll get it.  he may have to do a hop and a jump to get it done though.  Thrusting maybe..?

The other thing is most females will 'squat' when being service- even AI.  They don't call it 'humping' for no reason.

The only arguement behind using these tinky new club calf bulls- is it's unnatural for them to become herd sires- If the cattle were left to be wild in the nature-- only the biggest, most massive bulls would breed cows.. these little tiny guys wouldn't have an arm running around collecting semen and squirting it into the cows to reproduce with that were frame scores larger than themselves were...

 

[hntwhitetail]

That is some good information.  Just trying to figure out how short is too short for a sire compared to the cows that you have.  I know it take some drive.  Just wondering what others have noticed w/ this. 

 

[Top Knot]

If you want to downsize while breeding naturally, it would probably be a good idea to go to an 18 month or two year old bull. I've turned yearling bulls (6-6.5 frame) in with large cows (8 frame at least). The cows got bred, but they were later in the season and I know they had cycled early. I think the yearling needed practice and experience. It can be done, but if you're looking at using a frame 5 bull or less, you'd better be ready to accept some open and or late calving cows.

There is the same problem with a lot of boars in studs. I doubt many of them could handle natural service.

 

[hntwhitetail]

So would a bull being 8" less than a cow be able to breed??

 

[HAB]

So would a bull being 8" less than a cow be able to breed??

If he has libido... not a problem.

 

[hntwhitetail]

So would a bull being 8" less than a cow be able to breed??

If he has libido... not a problem.

Well I saw him riding a pretty big cow last night....  he was almost standing straight up in the air to try and get the job done.

 

[aj]

When the belt buckle cattle of the 50's or whatever started...they actually had breeding stalls where cows were in a lower level with head caught....so smaller framed bulls could mount up.

 

[OH Breeder]

With all of the newer bulls being shorter or a smaller frame score, I thought I would throw this question out there.  What is the largest height difference that a bull can naturally sire a cow?  This would be on flat ground w/ no holes also....  ???  Wondering if the newer sires would have to be a.i. use only on some cows w/ pedigrees just a few years old.

I have one cow that is very large. she is older breeding and is probably frame 7. My herd bull is probably a score 4.5-5.0. He hops and hops gets the job done...but I think God makes an adjustment in the size of certain pieces of equipment to compensatory for the differences. 

 

[DRB]

With all of the newer bulls being shorter or a smaller frame score, I thought I would throw this question out there.  What is the largest height difference that a bull can naturally sire a cow?  This would be on flat ground w/ no holes also....  ???  Wondering if the newer sires would have to be a.i. use only on some cows w/ pedigrees just a few years old.

I have one cow that is very large. she is older breeding and is probably frame 7. My herd bull is probably a score 4.5-5.0. He hops and hops gets the job done...but I think God makes an adjustment in the size of certain pieces of equipment to compensatory for the differences. 

My 4.5-5 frame bull got the job done too - definitely had to jump for some.  I would be concerned about possible injury if he had to jump too much though, but haven't seen any issues...