Smokeys

[clubcalve]

How often does alias throw smokey calves out of Angus Cows.  ???  ??? ???

 

[frostback]

50% of the time you will get a smoke out of Angus cows.

 

[shortdawg]

What about Vanilla Ice on Angus cows ? Just for fun, what about JPJ on a Charolais/Angus cow ( Yellow Roan ? ) ?

 

[chambero]

I got a perfectly colored "shorthorn" calf last fall out of Lights Out (a shorthorn bull) and a halfblood Charolais cow (Troy x Magic GD).

 

[showsteerdlux]

I got a smoke out of a angus bull cross charolais/simmi cow. I've thought about putting JPJ on the resulting smokey but I've wondered what color i'll end up with.

 

[frostback]

What about Vanilla Ice on Angus cows ? Just for fun, what about JPJ on a Charolais/Angus cow ( Yellow Roan ? ) ?

Vanilla Ice on Angus cows would be the same at 50% Smoke, 50% Black.
JPJ on Smoke cows would give you a 25% hetro black, 25% yellow orangish, 25% blue roan, 25%  yellow roan. The yellow colour depends on how much red factor the cow carries.

 

[garybob]

What about Vanilla Ice on Angus cows ? Just for fun, what about JPJ on a Charolais/Angus cow ( Yellow Roan ? ) ?

Vanilla Ice on Angus cows would be the same at 50% Smoke, 50% Black.
JPJ on Smoke cows would give you a 25% hetro black, 25% yellow orangish, 25% blue roan, 25%  yellow roan. The yellow colour depends on how much red factor the cow carries.

On the subject of the Diluter Gene, Frostback. I have a question. Do you think on Appendix Papers, the yellows, orange-ish, and brindles need to be better noted on the pedigree. Those cattle are not red. Do we need the diluter gene to add it to our woes as a Breed Association?

GB

 

[frostback]

Well Garybob technically the yellows and oranges are RED animals but they also carry one diluter gene. Charolais are Homo Red animals that are also Homo for the diluter gene. The amount of dilutent they carry determines the colour. That is why Chamberos calf was dark red, his cow is not high diluted.
Lets say you breed Vanilla Ice to a hetro Black cow. The outcomes will be 25% Homo Black, 25% Hetro Black, 25% Smoke, 25% Yellowish,Orangeish, Reddish.
As far as needing a separate category for yellows and such in the ASA,,,, well that isnt my call and so many breeders screw up Roans and Red with Whites it just might confuse more people than it helps. It is defiantly a different gene combo that can go onto offspring.

 

[shortdawg]

Those off color calves are hot right now and IMHO they would get a 2nd look from the judge just b/c they are different. Would it make a difference if my cow is a registered Angus on Vanilla Ice. By mid- Sept. I will let you all know what I have. Both Vanilla Ices will be out of reg. Angus cows and the JPJ will be out of a Char/Angus cross.

One last question would be JPJ on a white cow, what would the % breakdown on that ?

 

[OH Breeder]

Those off color calves are hot right now and IMHO they would get a 2nd look from the judge just b/c they are different. Would it make a difference if my cow is a registered Angus on Vanilla Ice. By mid- Sept. I will let you all know what I have. Both Vanilla Ices will be out of reg. Angus cows and the JPJ will be out of a Char/Angus cross.

One last question would be JPJ on a white cow, what would the % breakdown on that ?

Shortdawg, I could never keep roans straight. I have an entire article on roan color patterns. The easy explaination I use is from Wikepedia. Roans do not always hold true with color pattern. See below.

Wikipedia
Roan cattle

Breeds of cattle known for roans are the Belgian Blue and Shorthorn. Among the former, coat color may be solid black, solid white, or blue roan; the latter may be solid red, solid white, or red roan. Belgian Blues also typically exhibit spotting patterns, which are genetically separate from roan. As a result, most roan cows exhibit blotches of clearly colored and clearly white hair, with roan patches.Some "cryptic" roan cattle appear solid, but upon close inspection reveal a small roan patch. Roan cattle cannot "breed true" but breeding white cattle to a solid mate will always yield a roan calf. The white color typical of Charolais and White Park breeds is not related to roan.

Roan in Shorthorns and Belgian Blues is controlled by the mast cell growth factor (MGF) gene, also called the steel locus, on bovine chromosome 5. Part of the KIT ligand, this region is involved in many cell differentiation processes. Mast cell growth factor promotes pigment production by pigment cells , and without it, skin and hair cells lack pigment. With two functional MGF genes ([homozygous] dominant), cattle are fully-pigmented; without any functional MGF genes ([homozygous] [recessive], they are white. MGF-controlled roan occurs when cattle possess one functional and one non-functional MGF gene ([heterozygous]), resulting in a roughly even mixture of white regions and colored regions.

 

[frostback]

Those off color calves are hot right now and IMHO they would get a 2nd look from the judge just b/c they are different. Would it make a difference if my cow is a registered Angus on Vanilla Ice. By mid- Sept. I will let you all know what I have. Both Vanilla Ices will be out of reg. Angus cows and the JPJ will be out of a Char/Angus cross.

One last question would be JPJ on a white cow, what would the % breakdown on that ?

Any roan bred to a white will give you a 50% chance of roan and a 50% chance of a white. You did mean a white shorthorn and not charolais right?

 

[frostback]

I think that what they mean by a "roan not breeding true" is that you will not always get a roan from a roan to roan mating. You will get a white 25% of the time, a red 25% of the time and a roan 50% of the time. You can breed for a red only herd and a white only herd but you cannot breed for a roan only herd as you get whites, and reds from that mating.

 

[Freddy]

Was reading your comments on color an smoke's, always wondered how Shorthorn worked on Char's. I really like my Vanila Ice calve's , have one Char cross an one out of reg. Angus cow that is black with a star in forhead.  I think he will really work on Char's especially if you have one a Little rangy or to big, adds body an moderation to them  with the simmi feminine look.  Could be quite a combination for smoke female because of being free of defects an the soft look. Will try to get some picture's some time. I'm not very familiar with  Shorthon's an it took me a while to figure out who JPJ was.  Some sire's on the Char's sire  quite a few ratails , heatwave is one of the worst, but some of his son's have never had one.

 

[shortdawg]

I was talking about a white SH cow. The cows I have Vanilla Ice bred to are both Reg. Angus and I'm excited about them. They are both sexed and I have one bull & one heifer on the way. ;D