Spastic Paresis from the "Mama" Side

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chambero

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Well - we've been struck again.  Several of you probably remember me posting that we had a herd bull that threw one spastic paresis calf for us for each of the two years we kept him.  He didn't get to stay for the 3rd even though the rest of his calves were generally very good.

Well, my son's first show heifer out of him had her first calf this fall.  SP started showing up in that calf about a month ago (at about 4 months of age).  The calf is sired by Hard Core.  It is a much less severe case than we've had before - he really only shows it when he first gets up.

The cow can't be sold, but I'm wondering how likely this is to happen again.  I know its not a true dominant/recessive gene.  Only about 1 calf out of 50 from her daddy had it each year (still too many).

Does anyone have any idea if both parents have to be carriers to even have a chance to have it like TH and PHA?
 

knabe

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the amma has given permission for beever and barrel racer to proceed with this.  perhaps they have some insight.

there hereford association saved these cows (dwarfs in this case) to "test" bulls.  i don't know how many they kept to test bulls. 

we are probably getting near the point that one of these defects may be multigenic.  i hope that doens't happen.  it's starting to happen in human already.  the low hanging fruit has been pretty much been picked in human.  it's why searches are usually industrial scale and part of the reason pharma is so expensive.  it's nice when you can simply breed it out.
 

red

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we've had it out of a Gold club x angus cow. It's hard to pin point what it will come from.

Red
 

DL

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knabe said:
the amma has given permission for beever and barrel racer to proceed with this.  perhaps they have some insight.

well knabe I am not sure that Dr B and Barrel Racer need the AMAAs permission to do anything  ;D - last I  knew the AMAA was interested in begining to undertake a study of the genetics of spastice paresis - but wanted to wait until the PHA thing was sorted out (whatever that means :eek: :eek:)

Last I spoke the the gene guru they were looking for samples and pedigrees

chambero - you have had bad luck with this for sure - I would send in samples from the calf and cow and (if you own the grand dam her as well. If you have semen on the bull send that as well) - these samples can have DNA extracted be stored so when there is sufficient information pedigree wise the gene hunt can begin

my guess is that it is not one gene - but that is based solely on the widely variable phenotype and unpredictable frequency - I think we can say it is not dominant - if it is recessive with modifyier genes or variable penetrance or something else - who knows

if you can't sell the cow I would breed her to a bull that no one any where ever thought they heard about spastic paresis from that bull - that would pretty much eliminate the clubby bulls and anything straight legged - maybe crazy but how about a Red Angus??
 

knabe

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from meeting minutes in nov

Chairman Nessler reported that when we are ready, Dr Beever is ready to start work on a DNA marker test for Spastic Paresis. Consensus was to wait until the last wrinkles are worked out of the reporting issues for PHA.
The Breed Improvement Committee moved, effective Jan. 1, 2009, to be accepted for registry into the AMAA herd book, bulls will have to be free of carrier status of lethal genetic defects per the genetic defects rules of the AMAA. Free status to be determined by test or parentage. Currently, the lethal genetic defects are TH and PHA. Seconded by Hartman. Motion Passed.

i assume this might mean some sort of cooperation with either samples, money or both?
 

Barrel Racer

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Hey all!  I'll ask Dr. B the specifics when he gets in this morning.  We have had some bad flooding here I know that my pasture is under two feet of water and there are cornstalks all over.  
I've been occupied with Hereford Epilepsy samples lately so all I've been doing involves DNA isolation.  I think that we were trying to get all the University stuff and breed policy stuff for PHA out of the way as DL said, and I was working on Epilepsy.   As far as I know we are getting a few samples here and there for spastic paresis.  I know that I have a couple of ears in the freezer.  Not near enough to start mapping though.  I know that the SNP chip will be publically available soon so we might try some experiments with that (different mapping method tons more information).  I would agree that everything I have read points to a multilocus trait (but who knows I've definitely been wrong before  ;D).  If so, it'll take awhile, but if anyone can do it Dr. B is your guy.  
 

knabe

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it will be interesting if the chip can't do it and you need more coverage and error free sections of the genome to do it.  this is the most frustrating part about completing a genome.  the current model is to not do genomes as well as human was done.  and if the genome is highly polymorphic like poplar, sea squirt, frog etc, this creates more opportunities to excel.
 

Barrel Racer

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knabe said:
it will be interesting if the chip can't do it and you need more coverage and error free sections of the genome to do it.  this is the most frustrating part about completing a genome.  the current model is to not do genomes as well as human was done.  and if the genome is highly polymorphic like poplar, sea squirt, frog etc, this creates more opportunities to excel.

I agree.. If cost wasn't an issue, we would probably use the TH pedigree or the PHA pedigree on the chip and see what kind of correlation we can get.  To me that would prove its value as a mapping tool.  Right now they are still working out kinks on data analysis as well.  We sent some hypotrichosis samples to be done with the chip and the amount of data is just huge and so far not many programs are doing a great job at handling it. 
 

knabe

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we did the same thing in human, we had some samples that were handled differently.  here it was brain tissue.  it turns out that a major factor was how the brains were handled post mortem that was skewing data and what ph they were.  another test, a few samples were mislabled and they stuck out like a sore thumb, we revisited the chain of command, and sure enough the samples were mislabeled.  data fit better after that, but in the end, our candidate genes amounted to nothing.  sadly, the industry is still at the stage of candidate gene picking and this is introducing bias.  it's almost as if a monkey throwing darts could perform better, just like in the stock market against stock pickers.

i'm sure you were serendipitously suprised at the PHA gene.  now when is that paper coming out ;D
 

Barrel Racer

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knabe said:
we did the same thing in human, we had some samples that were handled differently.  here it was brain tissue.  it turns out that a major factor was how the brains were handled post mortem that was skewing data and what ph they were.  another test, a few samples were mislabled and they stuck out like a sore thumb, we revisited the chain of command, and sure enough the samples were mislabeled.  data fit better after that, but in the end, our candidate genes amounted to nothing.  sadly, the industry is still at the stage of candidate gene picking and this is introducing bias.  it's almost as if a monkey throwing darts could perform better, just like in the stock market against stock pickers.

i'm sure you were serendipitously suprised at the PHA gene.  now when is that paper coming out ;D

Wow that's interesting and something to for sure take note of.  Ouch...mislabeling.... I tend to be the only person handling the samples I deal with, so if anything is wrong I know exactly who to blame lol!  I've learned with all the diseases I've done the past two years (TH,PHA,Epilepsy,Diluter) that none turned out to be our initial guesses for candidate genes.  Of course there is a gene named tibial hemimelia that would have just been way too easy.  Dr. B and I bet on the PHA gene, turns out neither one of us was even in the ball park. 
I know you are anxiously awaiting the paper  ;D probably just as much as AJ wants to know that Nobody's Fool cow's PHA status  (lol), but we'll probably be publishing the TH paper first and then waiting on PHA until all the legal stuff is worked out. We're going to try and go to Nature for TH as a short communication so hopefully we can get that done soon.  Although I think that you even though you don't have Herefords, from a scientific point of view Epilepsy is going to be really, really neat for you, that one I think is not getting patented so it could possibly get out here pretty quick. 
 

Barrel Racer

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Barrel Racer said:
 I would agree that everything I have read points to a multilocus trait (but who knows I've definitely been wrong before  ;D).  If so, it'll take awhile, but if anyone can do it Dr. B is your guy.  

I stand corrected just asked Dr. B and he says he thinks it's a recessive. 
 

red

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Barrel Racer- did you check out the thread on money mouth?

How is Turbo? I bet a real big boy now!!!!

Red
 

knabe

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according to merck

Spastic paresis is a progressive unilateral or bilateral hyperextension of the hindlimb(s). It is seen sporadically in most breeds of cattle. Post-legged cattle are most frequently affected. Attempts to move are believed to simultaneously trigger contractions of both extensors and flexors of the limb. Spastic paresis is currently considered to be inherited via a recessive gene(s) with incomplete penetrance.

so like monkey mouth on the incomplete penetrance.  i wonder what the least penetrance phenotype looks like?
 

chambero

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I've probably got the least penetrance thing going with this calf.  Our previous calvs showed it at a much younger age and had to be put down pretty early in life.  They couldn't get a back leg on the ground at all.  This one isn't too bad once he "gets going".

I already have the heifer bred back to Rocky Balboa before I knew I had a problem.  She'll get something completed unrelated to Chis, Simis, or Maines next time - probably PB Charolais or just Angus.  If it happens again she'll be a recip. 

This heifer has "pet" status - my wife and two little boys would smother me in the middle of the night if I tried to get rid of her.  We are all just sick we're going to have to get rid of this steer calf in a hurry.  My 5 year old has been leading him around since he was a couple of months old.
 

cowz

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We had a local club calf breeder selling calves out of "Gold Spike" that threw several calves that succumbed to SP.  I am assuming that is the same pedigree of "Gold Club" that Red mentioned earlier?
 

red

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cowz said:
We had a local club calf breeder selling calves out of "Gold Spike" that threw several calves that succumbed to SP.  I am assuming that is the same pedigree of "Gold Club" that Red mentioned earlier?

Cowz, I never heard of a Gold Club bull by that name but could be.

Red
 
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