Starting a new Shorthorn Association for Cattle Breeders

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RyanChandler

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What the hell are we paying the Assoc for if its not to promote Shorthorns??  I'm not saying they aren't doing some- and some of them aren't doing a lot- but I get bent when you insinuate we re expecting to benefit without contributing. Ill owe the Assoc about $600 this year. A petty amount I agree, but I'm just one breeder.  Why is it so unreasonable in your opinion for me/we to suggest how the funds are allocated?
 

knabe

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Re-read thread for list of positive ideas.

All I'm saying is if you want something special successful people just do it.

They don't wait to convince people to do it.

It's easier to convince people with results than ideas.
 

knabe

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here's a list of positive things to do.

start your own pen contest

cooperate with your favorite shorthorn friends to submit data and give yourselves a name and advertise

produce cattle that do what you say shorthorns should do

find cooperator herds that will use your group's bulls

offer semen from a group of bulls so people will sample multiple bulls instead of just yours

promote other prefixes from herds that conform to your specs

describe your culling procedure

stop bad mouthing the show industry

run for the board

attend sales, even if they are show cattle to show your good will and don't bash them

use retained ownership to prove worth of your cattle

jeez, is it really that hard?
 

comercialfarmer

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knabe said:
here's a list of positive things to do.

start your own pen contest

cooperate with your favorite shorthorn friends to submit data and give yourselves a name and advertise

produce cattle that do what you say shorthorns should do

find cooperator herds that will use your group's bulls

offer semen from a group of bulls so people will sample multiple bulls instead of just yours

promote other prefixes from herds that conform to your specs

describe your culling procedure

stop bad mouthing the show industry

run for the board

attend sales, even if they are show cattle to show your good will and don't bash them

use retained ownership to prove worth of your cattle

jeez, is it really that hard?

(clapping). 

I would start with promoting that HC bull if he performs like I think he would.  His pedigree with that Kkim bull that topped about every category in the herd when I first started looking, Leroy that just looks like a bull should, and I believe captain mark is back there another time as well
that has made some beautiful cows, I would take him and run. 

I agree that if you can provide numbers and others can't, those looking for numbers will find you.  Word of mouth works, which can also be a detriment.  If you're going to act like an arse on here, well.... you just shouldn't.  It costs you more than you realize.  I have dog in the fight, so I can.  ;D
 

aj

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Who is the guy in Missouri who does Shorthorn locker beeves? You can pm me if you want.
 

RyanChandler

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HC Vanguard 22Z. Major Leroy son out of a KKIM Last Call daughter. He's a linebred Captain Mark.  Plan to collect him- most likely in Stillwater- this fall.
 

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comercialfarmer

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Last call, couldn't remember off the top of my head.  He was in the top of my searches by numbers when playing with the website.  Didn't find any semen on him, but saw that JIT had use of him.  Not that my opinion matters, I like what he did with it.  Just with online wishing, I would wonder about crossing the dam with northern legend as well. 

Anyway, really like the pedigree.  I'd like to hear what his calves are hitting the ground at, when they come.  It would be interesting to see the difference between here and the tundra (I know it's not, but might as well be as far as I'm concerned).
 

knabe

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-XBAR- said:
HC Vanguard 22Z. Major Leroy son out of a KKIM Last Call daughter. He's a linebred Captain Mark.  Plan to collect him- most likely in Stillwater- this fall.

What does world champion mean?

I would breed your bull to the best Leroy daughter I could find.
 

RyanChandler

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knabe said:
-XBAR- said:
HC Vanguard 22Z. Major Leroy son out of a KKIM Last Call daughter. He's a linebred Captain Mark.  Plan to collect him- most likely in Stillwater- this fall.

What does world champion mean?

I would breed your bull to the best Leroy daughter I could find.

World Champion: one who shows marked, worldly superiority. 

There was a great Leroy daughter in the same sale. I sure liked her.  You have any standouts in mind?
 

knabe

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No but find one whose mother's epd's compliments Leroy's deficiencies.

Or make one yourself.

I would say world champion on your ad has the opposite effect you are looking for if he wasn't in a contest declaring him so. Our differences aside, it makes me question your integrity.

The bull speaks for himself and doesn't deserve a non-existent title.

I would use a non-fluffed Canadian style pic and think of a pose that is different like the old ps power play pic. Not like the pose, but something different than the near leg spread going slightly uphill. It's so show cattle oriented and is hopefully your target audience is wider than that.
 

frostback

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-XBAR- said:
knabe said:
-XBAR- said:
HC Vanguard 22Z. Major Leroy son out of a KKIM Last Call daughter. He's a linebred Captain Mark.  Plan to collect him- most likely in Stillwater- this fall.

What does world champion mean?

I would breed your bull to the best Leroy daughter I could find.

World Champion: one who shows marked, worldly superiority. 

There was a great Leroy daughter in the same sale. I sure liked her.  You have any standouts in mind?

world championship(s) is the top achievement for any sport or contest. The title is usually awarded by contests, ranking systems, stature, ability, etc. This determines the best nation, team, individual (or other entity) in the world in a particular field. Certain sports do not have a world championship, instead they may organise a World cup competition, or they may organize both. Often, the use of the term cup or championship in this sense is just a choice of words. Some sports have multiple champions because of multiple organizations such as mixed martial arts, boxing and wrestling.[citation needed]
Certain sports do not have a world championships or a world cup as such, but may have one or several world champions. Professional boxing, for example, has several world champions at different weights, but each one of them is decided by a "title fight", not a tournament

What PEOPLE choose him?
Pretty big claim when you bring into question other owners marketing words.
 

knabe

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frostback said:
Professional boxing, for example, has several world champions at different weights, but each one of them is decided by a "title fight", not a tournament

there was a sanctioned event of of one owner with one entry and the bull was declared world champion.

that to me is why the ad doesn't make sense.  the bull has so many good qualities and pedigree that the ad distracts from his value.
 

caledon101

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knabe said:
-XBAR- said:
And until mandatory reporting in enacted, the EPDs will always be bogus.

bogus.  gigo.

Just my opinion here.
Collecting information from multiple sources and pooling it into one central database is a great idea provided the information being submitted is accurate. Unfortunately, many breeders don't see the economic value in recording performance information. They don't believe it leads to a dime extra for their seedstock. People without the weigh scales, enthusiasm or motivation to collect data will simply submit "guesstimates" if forced by their association to do so.
I suppose in a perfect world every breeder would be all stoked up about collecting accurate, meaningful performance information and submitting it. But, until there are some serious economic incentives for those that do and/or severe discounts for those that don't it won't happen?? I am sure there are many commercial bull buyers who will only deal with producers who are diligent about documenting birth weights and performance information. I don't know how any serious breeder can plan for success if they don't record performance.

Churchill was quoted as saying.... "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried".
Starting a new association is a huge project. Flawed as may be, democracy is the only pathway in my opinion.
However, just because a majority vote in support of any particular decision doesn't mean it will prove to be the best choice. Any new association formed won't be perfect either. And besides, if a new Association beats the odds and becomes successful it will eclipse the existing association and therefore, won't you have all the same people right back onboard? It's the people, not their cattle, that are the issue right??
Collectively, people make mistakes and bad decisions all the time in the political arena as well as on both private and public Boards. The best candidate doesn't always win the election and, mistakes do occur....hence Churchill's frustration.

Volunteer Boards are often troublesome. You have a diverse group of people hopefully contributing an equally diverse set of skills and talents. No one gets paid for their "time and work" and consequently accountability can be an issue. Poor attendance, incomplete assignments and poor communication by individual Directors can occur. A good President or GM can make the world of difference. Leadership is everything.

It's only my opinion..... A "good" breed association has a Board that protects the registry and makes any serious effort available to improve the accuracy and integrity of the Herd Book.
A good Board understands the high importance of effective communication to the membership; it not only listens, it reaches out and encourages feedback and ideas.
A good Board has an over-arching vision which includes not only an agenda and plan for the current year but a longer term view....a 5 year plan of where they want to take the Association and breed. Simple, modest and realistic goals and targets around increases in membership and transactions is just one aspect. And, those goals are articulated openly to the membership so they all understand the direction being taken.

People want to belong to and invest their money in something they see is on the move upwards. Momentum isn't easy to generate but once you get the "flywheel" spinning good things start happening. Any successful organization has a "hum" to it....you can feel it. It's a postive vibe.

I am not against our Association in Canada implementing mandatory WHR but I sure don't agree with the idea that some breeders have the option to remain exempt simply because they were members before 2001. Members should be equal in all ways should they not? 
And no...I don't have a bad "attitude".
 

RyanChandler

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knabe said:
No but find one whose mother's epd's compliments Leroy's deficiencies.

Or make one yourself.

I would say world champion on your ad has the opposite effect you are looking for if he wasn't in a contest declaring him so. Our differences aside, it makes me question your integrity.

The bull speaks for himself and doesn't deserve a non-existent title.

I would use a non-fluffed Canadian style pic and think of a pose that is different like the old ps power play pic. Not like the pose, but something different than the near leg spread going slightly uphill. It's so show cattle oriented and is hopefully your target audience is wider than that.
I personally don't recognize the legitimacy of any of the sanctioned shows, hence my claim of Vanguard as, "The People's Champ." There is no sanctioning of public opinion. 

Our differences aside, the fact that you're so opinionated while concealing your identity makes -me- question -your- integrity.  I was once told, "anonymous words have no validity."  What do you think?

I absolutely agree about the pic.  I had less than 10 days once the bull finally got here to submit the ad.  I have a pretty good pic of him on my pond dam that, unless I get a better one, I will use going forward.  I would love to flush his PGD- Prairie Lane Sparkle- back to him.  I've also talked to TGCC about purchasing a flush from his Lakeside Clementine cow.  I think once people see what Vanguard will do when bred to the flatter/plainer JSF/KL/Lovings type cow base I have, any questioning of his superiority will cease. IMO, he's exactly what these cows need.  We will see.  <beer>



frostback said:
-XBAR- said:
knabe said:
-XBAR- said:
HC Vanguard 22Z. Major Leroy son out of a KKIM Last Call daughter. He's a linebred Captain Mark.  Plan to collect him- most likely in Stillwater- this fall.

What does world champion mean?

I would breed your bull to the best Leroy daughter I could find.

World Champion: one who shows marked, worldly superiority. 

There was a great Leroy daughter in the same sale. I sure liked her.  You have any standouts in mind?

world championship(s) is the top achievement for any sport or contest. The title is usually awarded by contests, ranking systems, stature, ability, etc. This determines the best nation, team, individual (or other entity) in the world in a particular field. Certain sports do not have a world championship, instead they may organise a World cup competition, or they may organize both. Often, the use of the term cup or championship in this sense is just a choice of words. Some sports have multiple champions because of multiple organizations such as mixed martial arts, boxing and wrestling.[citation needed]
Certain sports do not have a world championships or a world cup as such, but may have one or several world champions. Professional boxing, for example, has several world champions at different weights, but each one of them is decided by a "title fight", not a tournament

What PEOPLE choose him?
Pretty big claim when you bring into question other owners marketing words.

Are you suggesting that because I didn't use "Champion" (not Championship) in what you consider "usual" form, that my claim is somehow void now? I feel like you've chosen one definition of the word that you happen to be familiar with and ran with it.  The definition I have chosen is: one who shows marked superiority.  Clearly, HC VANGUARD 22Z shows superiority. 
 

aj

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Come on man.....I have a bull that is undefeated........Grand champ shorthorn plus bull.....at Denver and the Kansas State fair. He show at a county fair next week. You are not going to rain on my purple ribbon parade......are you. Steer planet grin.
 

NHR

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-XBAR- said:
HC Vanguard 22Z. Major Leroy son out of a KKIM Last Call daughter. He's a linebred Captain Mark.  Plan to collect him- most likely in Stillwater- this fall.


I see a major problem with this bull. Color! I have read on here over the years that only the Red shorthorns are viable for commercial. This bull looks like he belongs in the show ring. Just saying!!!
 
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