state of the union address

[knabe]

i thought it was decent for bush, can't believe i said that. 

on the plus side

liberals who say they would gladly pay more taxes but don't, should, with a check or money order along with a process to see whose contributing in this, similar to what huckabee supposedly did.  that way we can see who is putting the money where their mouth is like the founders of google, bono, the waltons, buffett, gates, elton john, etc.

on the negative side

reinforcing the idea that we need a massive influx of citizens to pay for the ponzi schemes of social security, medicare etc

the ONLY way to fix these, is an indexing system for beneficiaries, not creating more beneficiaries at a rate never seen in world history.  but that's too hard for those educated by the school systems in CA, NY and FL to understand.  they just want the oil companies to lose THEIR subsidy, not the democrats favorite subsidy recipients.

remove subsidies for EVERYONE, then i'll be impressed you believe in capitalism

 

[JbarL]

i just couldnt believe the way he stressed  MILLIONS and MILLIONS of JOBS..........not once but several references to MILLIONS and MILLIONS  of jobs????????
couldnt stand to watch anymore.....1 million is a lot of anything....and the rethoric i was heraring  was starting to  resemble the swinging watch about ready  to put me in some utopian " happy place"......jeezzz whizzzz....millions and millions.....wow........i feel better already....jbarl

 

[shorthorns r us]

Don't get too carried away with the Walton family and Bill Gates.

http://thomasreport.townhall.com/Default.aspx?mode=post&g=ff02f221-8e33-44a0-8409-c5c91479a0c7

 

[knabe]

a million points of blight, i mean light

excellent website SRU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

captialism allows you to do with your money what you think is best WITHOUT all the inefficient government beaurocracy, lifetime benefits etc.

there couldn't be a better system to help others.

proven over and over.

the robber barons, who mostly get bad press, were some of the best philanthropists in history.  it's interesting that most of the robber baron consolidations initiated progress as some people just can't stand to work for others.

alas, i work for the others.

 

[itk]

Ted Turner owns a bunch of land we pay him to put buffalo on, Bill Gates buys million dollar yachts, throws a "Microsoft" party on it and writes it off on his taxes. Capitalism and our government what a pair. ))

 

[knabe]

that's why i'm for getting rid of subsidies.  corporations may be taxed at 30%, but someone out there must know what the net rate is

these people didn't get ahead by not taking tax breaks.  we are the putzes for arguing that we need to take away oil subsidies.

we just need to take away subsidies and govt out of commerce.

think of all the people that could be effective in the private sector if they didn't have to manage the economy.

 

[shorthorns r us]

Taxable income over          Not over           Tax rate

          $                0        $      50,000                15%
                  50,000                 75,000                25%
                  75,000               100,000                34%
                100,000               335,000                39%
                335,000          10,000,000                34%
           10,000,000          15,000,000                35%
           15,000,000          18,333,333                38%
           18,333,333              ..........                  35%

If you read sec.11 of the IRC, it is nearly impossible to replicate this table.  The 38 & 39% brackets are meant to remediate the lower bracket up to an averave tax rate near 34 or 35% depending upon were you Taxable income falls between 100k and 18.3 mil.

 

[JbarL]

would  that represent a married/single income ???....or is the taxed based as a payroll deduction per pay period per each spouses induvidular income??? jbarl

 

[kimbaljd]

Where in the world do they come up with 18,333,333? Idiots!!!!!

 

[shorthorns r us]

the rate schedule listed is for corporate taxpayers

Where in the world do they come up with 18,333,333? Idiots!!!!!

i have done individual tax returns with much more than 18.3 million of taxable income.  during the dot-com boom, i worked on a day traders return with nerarly 300 million in taxable income.

the largest amount of taxable income that i ever saw on a 1040 was 4.8 billion.  most of that was long-term capital gain so the tax was about 1.4 billion.  he hand delivered a check to the local IRS office  for just over 1 billion on 4/15.  the numbers were so long that they would not print entirely within the line provided on the form with commas.

 

[Jill]

That would make me ill to hand over 1/4 on a capital gain!

 

[knabe]

families earning up to 60k pay NO federal income tax, yet they are getting a rebate check.  this is not a rebate, it's a handout.  not only that, but ILLEGALS qualify for this as well if they have a temporary identification number and file a tax return (TIN).

america is dead

in california, they are proposing a $70,000 fine if you burn in your fireplace.

a texas senator on the floor after the state of the union address said to bush "how can you get a rebate if you didn't bate?"

what are signs of an excess of democracy?  giving a rebate to people who didn't pay.  why are we so stupid.

where will americans go if whereever a mexican is, there is mexico?  we are sooo taken over.

by the way, mccain's office hasn't called me back yet, so i'm calling again today.


CAN ANYONE ESPOUSE ANY CAPITALIST PROGRAM OF ANY OF THE CANDIDATES?

 

[shorthorns r us]

That would make me ill to hand over 1/4 on a capital gain!

if you really want to be ill, i will tell you how old he was.


20

remarkably, he still has that money.  he invested it wisely...he didn't.  he lives off the interest paid by foreign banks at the rate of 11-18%.  do that math and puke again.

families earning up to 60k pay NO federal income tax, yet they are getting a rebate check.

not exactly.

W-2 income totalling $60k on a married filing joint return with two kids and not owning a home would result in taxable income of 35,700 (60k less standard deduction of 10,700 and 4 exemptions at 3400).  For the tax year 2007, those returns that are being done right now, the tax would be computed as follows: 1,565.00 plus 15% of the amount by which taxable income exceeds 15,650.  OR 35.700 - 15,650 = 20,050 * 15% = 3007.50 + 1565.00 = 4,572.50 of income tax.  then we get to add to that 7.65% of employment tax, which is $4,590.  that is a total of $9,165 to the federal government; that's about 15.4%.  if they own a home the amount of taxable income could go done some by itemizing; but probably not more than a few thousand $$$$.  on the way out the door to the doctor; so, i did that math in my head; it may not be perfectly accurate.

Here is the tax rate schedule for MFJ returns for the tax year 2007.

      Taxable income:                   Tax:
  Over     But not over         Tax                +%     On amount over           

$      0        $  15,650        $        0.00     10       $           0
  15,650        63,700           1,565.00     15          15,650
  63,700       128,500           8,772.50     25          63,700
128,500      195,850         24,972.50     28         128,500
195,850      349,700         43,830.50     33         195,850
349,700      .......             94,601.00     35         349,700

 

[knabe]

so this is semantics if i get a standard deduction of 10,700 off the top, but "pay" $9165?

so it's basically a wash?

 

[shorthorns r us]

a deduction isn't the same as a credit.  a deduction only reduces tax by the amount of the deduction times your tax rate. in this case the standard deduction is worth $1605 (10,700 * 15%).  a credit, on the other hand, is a $ 4 $ reduction in tax.  a very coomon tax credit and one that i forgot in my earlier example is the child tax credit.  it is $1,000 per minor child.  so our taxpayers above would actually pay $4573, it would be rounded, of income tax. 

while on the topic of taxes, i think i will set-up a couple of polls to see how Steer Planeteers handle things.

 

[knabe]

sru, what is the reason everyone (conservative pundits) is saying they don't pay (up to 60k), lying as usual?

is the "fair" tax of 10-15% based on these numbers and that it's basically stupid to do all this hand wringing when it's the "same" in the end?

if so, why should anyone get a break from paying taxes.  markets will adjust, ie salaries, home prices, but the overhead of taxes will be reduced at what savings?

earlier, i was talking about a revenue realized tax as opposed to an income tax.  the reason i said this was so that rates were the same whether you were an employee, or an employer and that we shouldn't discriminate on whether the taxpayer is a company or an individual and there should be no real incentive to protecting one's assets in a trust, a corporation etc as death taxes would have to be addressed, which seems like the real incentive for all the trusts etc.

 

[Jill]

a deduction isn't the same as a credit.  a deduction only reduces tax by the amount of the deduction times your tax rate. in this case the standard deduction is worth $1605 (10,700 * 15%).  a credit, on the other hand, is a $ 4 $ reduction in tax.  a very coomon tax credit and one that i forgot in my earlier example is the child tax credit.  it is $1,000 per minor child.  so our taxpayers above would actually pay $4573, it would be rounded, of income tax. 

while on the topic of taxes, i think i will set-up a couple of polls to see how Steer Planeteers handle things.

Finished quarterly taxes, doing corporate taxes right now, then farm taxes and lastly personal taxes, I don't know if I mentioned it or not, but I HATE taxes!

 

[shorthorns r us]

sru, what is the reason everyone (conservative pundits) is saying they don't pay (up to 60k), lying as usual?

change a few of the facts in my example and the tax starts to decrease.  above the line, you can decrease the wages line by participating in a employer sponsored retirement plan and/or health insurance plan. adding another kid or two will, not only, increase the child tax credit, but also, increase the amount of the exemptions.  having a mortgage will go a long way toward being able to itemize your deductions rather than take only the standard deduction of $10,700.  at $60k of income, maybe you could afford a house payment of about $1250/ month PITI if you lived reasonably in all other aspects of your life.  for the first several years of that mortgage, you would probably be putting $1100 of that toward tax and interest, which is deductible.  that is already $13,200 and you still get to deduct your state withholding, any balance of state income tax paid, charitable contributions, medical expenses if they are of an large enough amount and several other things.  a quick run through the numbers in my head tells me that another kid and $750/month for health insurance and your are not paying any income tax. 

Yes, it is possible to earn $60k and pay ZERO income tax

is the "fair" tax of 10-15% based on these numbers and that it's basically stupid to do all this hand wringing when it's the "same" in the end?

if so, why should anyone get a break from paying taxes.  markets will adjust, ie salaries, home prices, but the overhead of taxes will be reduced at what savings?

The tax law will never be simplified.  Too many lawyers in congress; about 15% of all legal fees are tax related.

earlier, i was talking about a revenue realized tax as opposed to an income tax.  the reason i said this was so that rates were the same whether you were an employee, or an employer and that we shouldn't discriminate on whether the taxpayer is a company or an individual and there should be no real incentive to protecting one's assets in a trust, a corporation etc as death taxes would have to be addressed, which seems like the real incentive for all the trusts etc.

Trusts are actually very income tax inefficient.  They are very good for avoiding probate and minimizing estate tax, distributing assets and earnings to descendents, and making LARGE charitable contributions.

The part of the tax law that bothers me the most is the inequity between debt and equity financing for corporate capitalization. 

 

[knabe]

i'm guessing the rationalization for that is that companies have a more "reliable" revenue stream.

i can't use cattle sales as capital on my new property purchase :'(

 

[Jill]

Why are trust income tax inefficient?