The best bull today?

[vet tech]

What is todays best bull...he still has to be alive.

 

[kane1598]

I don't know if it is possible to pick just one bull from all the breeds, there are many bulls that are consistently siring show winners.  "Best" could mean any different things, but I will take it that you  mean best bulls to sire winning show animals.  I really like Heatwave cattle, and I know that some people have a problem with him, but he is hands down the best clubby sire out their for steers and heifers.  Breed wise, I would say that the top bulls are CF Solution (shothorns), Dream On (simmys) and PVF New Horizon (angus).  There are so many more, but I have seen alot of great calves out of the ones I have listed.

 

[itk]

I don't know if it is possible to pick just one bull from all the breeds, there are many bulls that are consistently siring show winners.  "Best" could mean any different things, but I will take it that you  mean best bulls to sire winning show animals.  I really like Heatwave cattle, and I know that some people have a problem with him, but he is hands down the best clubby sire out their for steers and heifers.  Breed wise, I would say that the top bulls are CF Solution (shothorns), Dream On (simmys) and PVF New Horizon (angus).  There are so many more, but I have seen alot of great calves out of the ones I have listed.

As for CF Solution being the best Shorthorn bull of today, I think you are basing your opinion more less on the popularity of the animal along with a certain farm prefix. 

I would say that the best bull of today in the Shorthorn Breed, is a low profiled animal that was produced by a small and low profiled breeder who does not advertise in Shorthorn Country.   

So who is it?

 

[shortyjock89]

That's ok. I use bulls that no one has heard of, and I get along fine.

 

[kane1598]

I am not basing my opinion on anything besides show winners and cattle that I personally like. I think that Sonny is right up there with him. I bet it has been quite a few years that  CF Solution has not sired a major show champion.  I can go to a show and pick out the ones I like and the majority are sired by him. I don't think it possible to knock him based on his females and the amount of success he has had.

 

[justintime]

There is no such thing as " the best" bull in any breed. True there are some bulls that seem to niche well with more females than some others do, but "best" also is determined by what you are trying to achieve from mating a set of females too. I am more convinced than ever, that my list of " best" sires would probably vary substantially from  some of the others on this board. For example, I have had calves from a couple of CF Solution sons( both well known sires) and their calves simply have not made the cut here in my herd. CF Solution has sired some awesome offspring, but the good ones have also come from some of the best cows in the breed as well. I wonder how much of his success is due the the cows he has been used on... rather than his own breeding ability alone. 

Each year we all have to try and make breeding decisions that match the sire to the dam. Sometimes it works and we all think we are so smart. One of my best heifers this year is off a bull who happened to jump a fence to get to the cow. The resulting heifer calf is simply outstanding.... and I would probably never considered mating this bull with this female. That is one of the things that makes this business so interesting.

I actually just got in from touring some visitors through the pastures. I have to say that our calf crop this year is probably the best ever. I must be doing something right.... or is it the bulls I am using ... or is it just luck??????

 

[Doc]

kane , I gotta agree with you if you're talking about show winners, Sonny is right there also.

the truth, if he is the best bull today , you gotta have some way to prove it. either thru show winnings , carcass performance or something. I really doubt that the best bull today is one we haven't heard of , because if he was that good then everyone would be talking about him.

 

[shortyjock89]

I like HD Bloodstone for right now.  I know he's outta some bloodlines that some people hate, but he seems to be getting the job done for quite a few people. I absolutely love Sonny, and I wish I still had some of his semen.

 

[kane1598]

Agreed on the bloodstone.

 

[Cowgurl101]

I don't know if it is possible to pick just one bull from all the breeds, there are many bulls that are consistently siring show winners.  "Best" could mean any different things, but I will take it that you  mean best bulls to sire winning show animals.  I really like Heatwave cattle, and I know that some people have a problem with him, but he is hands down the best clubby sire out their for steers and heifers.  Breed wise, I would say that the top bulls are CF Solution (shothorns), Dream On (simmys) and PVF New Horizon (angus).  There are so many more, but I have seen alot of great calves out of the ones I have listed.

Just curious why you name New Herizon as the best angus bull. I have some cows that i was thinking about breeding to him, and wondered what type his bull and heifers are and what cows he clicks with. Thanks!!

 

[linnettejane]

I don't know if it is possible to pick just one bull from all the breeds, there are many bulls that are consistently siring show winners.  "Best" could mean any different things, but I will take it that you  mean best bulls to sire winning show animals.  I really like Heatwave cattle, and I know that some people have a problem with him, but he is hands down the best clubby sire out their for steers and heifers.  Breed wise, I would say that the top bulls are CF Solution (shothorns), Dream On (simmys) and PVF New Horizon (angus).  There are so many more, but I have seen alot of great calves out of the ones I have listed.

As for CF Solution being the best Shorthorn bull of today, I think you are basing your opinion more less on the popularity of the animal along with a certain farm prefix. 

I would say that the best bull of today in the Shorthorn Breed, is a low profiled animal that was produced by a small and low profiled breeder who does not advertise in Shorthorn Country.   

So who is it?

Probably a bull most people on here have never heard of. 

are you gonna spill the beans or what? 

 

[kane1598]

I am not at all convinced that CF Solution, or any of the many great Trump sons are "fads".  I would call them legends. Few bulls can equal the quality and track record as Trump and his sons like Sonny and CF Solution.  They have been around for a while and have produced many "greats "in the breed that can show and get it done in the pasture.  That is just my perspective.

 

[justintime]

There are many great bulls in every breed. They are great because they do the job which they were selected to do. They are great because they leave offspring better than they are themselves. They are prepotent sires ( a term that is seldom used anymore!). I have attached a picture of a bull that is such a bull. He is in a small herd of excellent cows, owned by a great family, and this bull is doing a great job. This bull was purchased for $2500 as a bull calf and he is, in my opinion, one of the best bulls..... anywhere. He has never been pictured in Shorthorn Country. He has only been shown once .. as a calf He is flat good and his offspring are flat good as well.

Great bulls don't only sire offspring that win shows. Winning shows is only a part of what any breed is about. Shows are an important part of any breed as they are an impotant promotional tool and are important to breeders to compare and see other breeders cattle and see how their cattle compare. There are some great bulls that have sired many thousands of dollars of bulls that get used in the commercial industry. For those of you who say you cannot produce Shorthorn bulls for commercial cattlemen, I would only say that you have not really tried real hard them.

The second bul I am adding to the " great " catagory is Red Fineline Mulberry, a two time Canadian National Champion Red Angus bull. His offspring are able to compete in both the show ring as well as the commercial industry. He is also the Red Angus sire that I have selected to flush some of my best red Shorthorn donors to. He is just about as complete in his phenotype as a bull can be made, and he is passing this on to his offspring as well. I can think of several other bulls that I would include in this catagory as being "Great" for what they do. Some you may have heard of.... and some you may not have>

 

[kane1598]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, but remember I stated my best bulls list.  I can't read minds, but assuming that this is a forum that is mainly based around show cattle, I shared my opinions, nothing more.

 

[oakbar]

I can't agree with Heatwave.  IMHO he is a producer of terminal cattle.   Yes, he may have offspring who look great as calves(especially at about 6-8 months) but many never really grow up to become good, mature cattle.    Also, I've talked to many cattlemen who have tried to use his daughters as cows and swear they will never keep another heifer out of him again.    He just does not pass on maternal traits even when bred to otherwise strong maternal females.   Again, IMHO, he is the prototypical clubby sire which means his progeny are destined for the show ring or nowhere and even then they won't get there very fast!!   Just my opinion!!

Of the popular SH bulls I think you would have to  at least mention Sonny.   His progeny have done very well in the show ring and better yet his daughters tend to be very good cows.   But as many have said already,  many of the best bulls are not well known.   In all reality,  bulls are like artists,  we probably won't  know who the best bulls are until after they're dead and gone!!   We really need to see how their progeny perform over a long period of time.   That most likely means we won't know how good or bad they were until after they're gone.

 

[justintime]

Kane1598........ I am not disagreeing with your choices. I am only giving some of mine. The bulls you have listed have done a great job and are truly legends . I am only saying that each of us on here produces cattle for different reasons, and that is one of the great things about this business. With this in mind, it stands to reason that each of us will have some "variation" in their lists of great bulls. There is nothing wrong with the sires you have listed if they produce the cattle that work for you.

 

[kane1598]

Why doesn't everyone list their own favorites instead of using mine as reference..... I am not offended in anyway whatsoever, but that is what the original poster asked for. ;D. 

 

[OH Breeder]

I don't know if it is possible to pick just one bull from all the breeds, there are many bulls that are consistently siring show winners.  "Best" could mean any different things, but I will take it that you  mean best bulls to sire winning show animals.  I really like Heatwave cattle, and I know that some people have a problem with him, but he is hands down the best clubby sire out their for steers and heifers.  Breed wise, I would say that the top bulls are CF Solution (shothorns), Dream On (simmys) and PVF New Horizon (angus).  There are so many more, but I have seen alot of great calves out of the ones I have listed.

As for CF Solution being the best Shorthorn bull of today, I think you are basing your opinion more less on the popularity of the animal along with a certain farm prefix. 

I would say that the best bull of today in the Shorthorn Breed, is a low profiled animal that was produced by a small and low profiled breeder who does not advertise in Shorthorn Country.   

So who is it?

Probably a bull most people on here have never heard of. 

are you gonna spill the beans or what? 

I would love to name some of the bulls, however these certain Shorthorn Breeders who own these bulls have asked me not to reveal anything on here. 

Sorry.  It's a very complicated and private matter.   I'm just someone who believes in what they are doing, and I do not believe in chasing after a bull because he is highly promoted and because of his popularity.  I choose to use genetics that are not as popular, and I do not chase after most of the fads in the Shorthorn Breed. 

I will say this however, I prefer to use Australian and Canadian Genetics over most US Genetics.  I really like what the Aussies are doing, and they are way ahead of their game when it comes to producing good shorthorn cattle.  The Aussies and also the folks in Argentina seem to be the top leaders when it comes to producing good shorthorn cattle.

I wish American Shorthorn Breeders would take note, and follow their example more, however at the same time I do have to accept the decisions of what other breeders choose to do, although I do not agree with a lot of the genetics that most Shorthorn Breeders here in the US use. 

So if it is suppose to be a secret why bring it up at all. That makes no sense. If they ask you not to bring it up then why post. Anything at all. Come on Truth you have to be kidding me.

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

From what I have seen, at least in the shorthorn breed you have really 3 different types of bulls.  Show bulls with their high BW's, the commercial types, and the bulls that can do both.  All three have their places in the breed it just depends on what you are breeding for.  For the show side I think that you have to have Sunny and other Trump sons up there.  For the commercial side definatly the Wakaru cattle, Lovings cattle, Jungles cattle, and for the ones that could do both I really like TM mr gus and Jakes Proud Jazz.  Just my openion.

 

[Doc]

kane , I gotta agree with you if you're talking about show winners, Sonny is right there also.

the truth, if he is the best bull today , you gotta have some way to prove it. either thru show winnings , carcass performance or something. I really doubt that the best bull today is one we haven't heard of , because if he was that good then everyone would be talking about him.

So you think if a bull was not highly promoted or is not popular with the "Main Stream" Shorthorn Breeders, then he is not better than what the more popular bulls are?  Sounds to me like you are basing your opinion on popularity itself.   Come on, you have got to be kidding me Doc!

Your comment is exactly the way most Shorthorn Breeders think today.  Everyone is out chasing the fads and the big names, along with animals that are produced by the big boys in the mainstream Shorthorn Breed.

Maybe the bull has not been heard of because that breeder does not promote him.   You think just because a bull is not promoted or has never been heard of  that somehow his genetics are not as good as Mr. Popularity is? 

So basically if you do not promote your bull, and if you keep him low profiled his genetics are no good.  Do you see the flaw in your statement Doc?

The ? that was asked is the best bull today. I agreed with Kane saying if you are going by show winnings. In order to say a bull is the best then once again you have to base it on something, show winnings, performance, calving ease, or producing all black or all purple cattle, etc. I'm sure you've got a reason for each bull you named , some of them I would be curious to hear , like Leggs 200 who has 6 calves registered by him & they're all '08 calves.
Everyone that is naming a bull is doing so from personal use or thru progeny being promoted. If a bull is only known to the owner & his neighbors in a 50 mile radius then you can't condemn us for not naming him.
As far as the Aussie genetics go , a lot of them go back to US genetics like Grand Slam, Prophet, Tribune, & Guiness.
All I'm saying is don't come down on people so hard for answering a post the way that they see it & for whatever reason , just because it doesn't agree with your opiniion.