The best bull today?

[BIGTEX]

 

I will admit that I am not a fan of most show cattle.  I don't care how much purple these animals bring home, the only thing I care about is having good sound functional cattle that have a good calf every year all the way up until they are between the ages of 14 to 20 years of age.  If a show animal can not do that, then that animal is not worth a hoot to me.   
[/quote]

Hey The Truth. This is a show cattle website. We understand the difference between Purebred  and club calf operations. They are not the same and never have been. Most people on here do care about winning and Purple Ribbons. (welcome)

 

[Doc]

I am not at all convinced that CF Solution, or any of the many great Trump sons are "fads".  I would call them legends. Few bulls can equal the quality and track record as Trump and his sons like Sonny and CF Solution.  They have been around for a while and have produced many "greats "in the breed that can show and get it done in the pasture.  That is just my perspective.

I realize my opinions are strong and I mean no personal disrespect towards you or what you say. 

However, I don't think that Trump was no where as good as the old Dividend bull was when it comes to performance and productivity.   

Yes Divdend contributed a lot to the breed. But,in case you didn't realize Dividend had a lot of progeny that was "show calves"in his day.That's how Aldens got his progeny in front of people & he gained his popularity.  Div. dtrs. had their problems also, some of them had udders that weren't the best & some were considered hard doing. I also think Trump has done a lot for the breed also. 

 

[afhm]

As far as shorthorns go Double Vision and Double Stuff were the best shorthorn bulls to surface in a long time when they came along.  Double Stuff brought more attention to the breed and contributed to its surge in popularity more than any other bull.  Yes, it was mainly in the showring, but then again the overwhelming majority of shorthorns are showring cattle.  The Double Vision cattle won more and were better than the Double Stuff's but that is how it is suppose to be.  A sire is suppose to out produce himself.  Those 2 bulls were responsible for shorthorns being used in more crossbreeding programs than any others.  There for a while the cow cross to have was a Double Vision/Angus.    Both of them have longevity and staying power, people are still using them today and it seems as if they are starting to get used heavier the past year or so.

 

[shortyjock89]

As far as shorthorns go Double Vision and Double Stuff were the best shorthorn bulls to surface in a long time when they came along.  Double Stuff brought more attention to the breed and contributed to its surge in popularity more than any other bull.  Yes, it was mainly in the showring, but then again the overwhelming majority of shorthorns are showring cattle.   The Double Vision cattle won more and were better than the Double Stuff's but that is how it is suppose to be.  A sire is suppose to out produce himself.  Those 2 bulls were responsible for shorthorns being used in more crossbreeding programs than any others.  There for a while the cow cross to have was a Double Vision/Angus.    Both of them have longevity and staying power, people are still using them today and it seems as if they are starting to get used heavier the past year or so.

We just bought a Double Vision x Trump heifer, and we use a DV son extnsively.  I think that DV is a great bull when used on the right cows.

 

[uluru]

Hey The Truth

Many of those bulls you like have semen available on www.shorthorns.ca
The Canadian Shorthorns Genetic Mall

Bob

 

[farmboy]

just a note, double stuff and vision were th and pha carriers, how much affect on the breed did that have?

 

[hm5220]

The Truth-

Wow, your last paragraph is just that "the truth"! So many people are so caught up with winning a purple ribbin they have lost site of the purpose of a good show heifer - Reproduction. I have seen so many people buy a high priced female and can she win yes but can she calve or better yet will she breed? No, why because FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION. Many judges are not selecting cattle that will perform in the pasture. It is easy for a bull to produce more champions but a female its not that easy. It is not often you here of a heifer that won a big show then the next year her daughter does it. You  mentioned females making it to their teens many of them will be lucky to make it to 5 and produce a Quality calf every year. Totally off the topic but just had to reply to you.

 

[shortyjock89]

just a note, double stuff and vision were th and pha carriers, how much affect on the breed did that have?

The Improver lines carry TH too, so it comes in on both sides of the "club calf" issue. 

HM Farms-

It's almost impossible for a big time heifer's first daughter to win the same big show the NEXT year because the calf would be just that- a baby.  Now, I know you probably meant that most of the champions don't produce champions, and I can't say I agree, but OOOOKKKKKKK.

 

[itk]

Many of to days top SH cow families have been winning major shows for decades. These cow families have carried on despite drastic swings in phenotype through the years. However I can't list these families it's a secret.

 

[shortyjock89]

Many of to days top SH cow families have been winning major shows for decades. These cow families have carried on despite drastic swings in phenotype through the years. However I can't list these families it's a secret.

Sure would hate for those sorts of secrets to get out.  We can't have that, the owners sure would hate it.

 

[Doc]

Many of to days top SH cow families have been winning major shows for decades. These cow families have carried on despite drastic swings in phenotype through the years. However I can't list these families it's a secret.

itk, that's a pretty important job, the keeper of the secret. i think you'll do a great job. <party>

 

[justintime]

Is this one of those" if I tell you ... I will have to shoot you" deals? if it is, we better be careful here.

 

[shortyjock89]

Is this one of those" if I tell you ... I will have to shoot you" deals? if it is, we better be careful here.

I'm not sure if we're allowed to talk about the terms of the secret..I think that's part of the mystery.  You don't wanna know what happened to the last guy that told the secret...

 

[bcosu]

not really, and i don't think i want to know anymore. that is if i'm gonna get shot!

 

[shortdawg]

I'm cool just ready this thread ...............................  ;D

 

[Doc]

just a note, double stuff and vision were th and pha carriers, how much affect on the breed did that have?

Double Stuff is "Double Trouble", and he is the worst thing that ever happened to the Shorthorn Breed.

Double Stuff should have been castrated back when he was a calf.   

If Double Stuff is Double Trouble then who's on first? Because  I Don't Know is on second! ;D

 

[Dutch Acres]

I am not basing my opinion on anything besides show winners and cattle that I personally like. I think that Sonny is right up there with him. I bet it has been quite a few years that  CF Solution has not sired a major show champion.  I can go to a show and pick out the ones I like and the majority are sired by him. I don't think it possible to knock him based on his females and the amount of success he has had.

I couldn't put CF Solution in the top slot on Shorthorns without seeing the 100's of head that don't make the cut in their annual sale.  The fact that it is very difficult to get semen on him to use on cows that probable aren't the very best eliminates him from the top spot for me.  I think Sonny has been used on a wide range of cows, his semen is expensive but available.  There have been very few Sonny's that I didn't like.

 

[knabe]

They are prepotent sires ( a term that is seldom used anymore!).

the way most programs are doing matings, pretpotency is a matter of luck.  some prepotency is affected by linebreeding and getting both recessive and dominant genes in a homozygous state.

 

[knabe]

However, I don't think that Trump was no where as good as the old Dividend bull was when it comes to performance and productivity. 

ditto.

however, is trump still alive?  i thought this was a live bull topic.

 

[justme]

I'm a Maine Anjou girl so the shorthorn lines are making my head spin.

This is just my honest opinion and what has worked with my females.  I'd say its Major's Money Man.  I've never had such consistant calves and his daughters are milking great for us.  I cann't argue with what we have got from him and will keep using him.