Time breeding vs detected heats?

[red]

When you use either a CIDR or give shots, do you breed based on timming or based on actually seeing a heat? Had this discussion at home w/ the nephews. We had given a cow shots & she was supposed to come in heat Monday. Monday, no heat & the boys thought we should still breed her. Hubby & I said no, wait to see an actual heat. Tuesday she came into a really hard, strong heat. Breeding her this morning.
I know some would use the time to breed & others do like we did. what's the thoughts on this one?
Cowboy, I know you have some ideas here!

Red

 

[chambero]

We used time breeding using the CoSynch without CIDRs for a few years.  We hit just a little better than 50% for about three years running on 40-50 cows per year.

We've heat detected using CIDRs, GnRH, and Lutalyze for the past two years.  Our first year we were 63% (we only bred once a day - if their patch was rubbed by early afternoon, they were bred that evening).  Of particular note, four cows didn't show heat.  They were given GnRH and bred on the last day.  Three of the four stuck.

 

[DL]

When you use either a CIDR or give shots, do you breed based on timing or based on actually seeing a heat? Had this discussion at home w/ the nephews. We had given a cow shots & she was supposed to come in heat Monday. Monday, no heat & the boys thought we should still breed her. Hubby & I said no, wait to see an actual heat. Tuesday she came into a really hard, strong heat. Breeding her this morning.
I know some would use the time to breed & others do like we did. what's the thoughts on this one?
Cowboy, I know you have some ideas here!

Red

When I synch I use the CO-synch + CIDR protocol - which basically is
day 0 CIDR + GNRH
day 7 pull CIDR + Lutalyse
66 hours later (for cows) 54 ( for heifers) breed and give GNRH

I breed everything on time (and most times I do see heats - so the cows read the book!)

I also heat detect - had one cow last year that came into standing heat 2 days after she was time bred - bred her again - she stuck

I have had 100% for the last couple of years

It is also useful for families that don't AI, don't have a bull, and have only a couple of heifers or cows - they can schedule the technician to come and we have had good success in this arena too

I think it is a very useful tool, especially for those of us who do only AI and do not use a bull. I'd rather use an extra of semen than miss a breeding opportunity

I know Malinda has a protocol where she time breeds after lutalyse if cows don't come in heat (I printed it out but it isn't where I am) and she has had good success with that too

 

[Jill]

We don't time breed at all.  We set up usually 20-25 at a time for embryo transfer and the ones that don't fall into the given time slot we breed only when we see them in heat.  This year we had 4 that didn't work, 2 came in 2 days later and we AI'd at that time and 2 that didn't stand at all we put them with the bull and they have since been bred, same with the ones we set up to AI.  I know there are a lot of people that do time breed, it just alway seemed like a waste of semen to me.  We do use patches and breed morning and evening.  Our embryo transfer rates were in the 90%'s til this year, we had 68% this year for us that was really poor, but I guess it is in the normal range.  Our AI rates have been in the 80's on cows, a little lower on the heifers, we run them pretty heavy and it is usually a little harder to get them stuck.  We use CIDR and 2cc Cystorelin and remove CIDR and 7cc Lutalyse on day 7, have had really good luck with this.

 

[chambero]

I know we have a problem with not breeding twice a day, we just logistically have not been able to do better yet.  We're getting there though.