I was at a farm and saw 4 of them. All from older genetics like Total Play, Play Ray cows etc. The cows were average and looked like Chi-Angus cows. The owner said we tried a new bull this year- Tiny Tim. Let me show you. He ran all 4 of them around the corner and they all looked identical. Square made front to back. Deep sided and chunky. They were nice calves and looked soft made and like easy feeding types. I am going back to see calves again here soon. I willl let you know how they have turned out. I asked how they calved he said almost all came the same way about 65#s and chunky. Two heifers and two cows neither had an issue. I actually think I am going to order some for a cow and give him a shot.