What makes a consistent herd bull for you??

[jaimiediamond]

What makes a consistent herd bull for you??

Below is a couple of examples of what I think a bull that has proven himself would be:

Example 1)
We have a bull that is entering his 8th breeding season the first 4 years with another purebred operation and now 4 years with ourselves. His years of production have resulted in 6 year old and under daughters as well as granddaughters in production.  He has sons working in purebred herds as well as sons working commercially.  Recently it came to my attention that another breeder was saying this bull doesn’t possess consistency which I find amusing if he wasn’t consistent why would he still be a walking herd bull?

Example 2)
Another example is a bull who saw service in our herd starting as a yearling, for five seasons.  This bull was then sold to another breeder and saw three seasons both purebred and commercially. He had sons working commercially and in purebred operations.  Most of our females trace back to this bull and we are still using him through AI. This bull has not only been consistent in Canada but has had a large amount of success in Australia as well

 

[RyanChandler]

A consistent bull for me is one that stamps his calves with uniformity.  Many people use bulls that aren't consistent as herd bulls. I don't understand it either but jus look at all the people using crossbred bulls - consistency thrown out the door in hopes of that one good one.    Good epds on your bull.

 

[JTM]

I agree with both of you when it comes to consistency. They are different meanings but they are both good traits for a herd bull to have I believe. My herd bull TG/RRA Complete has sired 24 calves so far. The calves have been consistent in uniformity and quality. He is siring calves that are long bodied, deep rib volume, and above average thickness. In his case he is a 3/4 Shorthorn but seems to be throwing calves that are consistent which is what I had hoped for. This is his second official calving season but his first for me. Very pleased with the quality.
I think a herd bull needs to consistently sire calves that are born unassisted, have high vigor at birth, get up and nurse on their own, and start growing immediately. I also believe the bull should consistently have the absence of any foot problems, keep his flesh throughout breeding season, have the ability to breed three or more cows in a day, survive harsh environments of heat or cold, and continually produce high quality semen just to name a few.

 

[RyanChandler]

How much of that consistency is attributed to your grade angus cow herd?  The true test to determine consistency would be putting a bull over a mongrelized cow herd and then evaluating uniformity.  The most consistent bull I've ever used was a Santa Gert. I bred him to a hodge podge group of cows and couldn't believe the uniformity in those calves.  That's the prepotency you get with a linebred breed/animal.  As prepotent an animal as Cherokee Canyon is, I wouldn't doubt a lot of that vigor coming through is from him.  He's a carcass bull for sure.

 

[vanridge]

How much of that consistency is attributed to your grade angus cow herd?   The true test to determine consistency would be putting a bull over a mongrelized cow herd and then evaluating uniformity.  The most consistent bull I've ever used was a Santa Gert. I bred him to a hodge podge group of cows and couldn't believe the uniformity in those calves.  That's the prepotency you get with a linebred breed/animal.  As prepotent an animal as Cherokee Canyon is, I wouldn't doubt a lot of that vigor coming through is from him.  He's a carcass bull for sure.

we had that with a white shorthorn bull that we used last year. Can't believe how uniform the calves are from him. He bred cows with frame score of 4-6.5 or 7 and the calves are just great.  There isn't a purebred cow in the bunch and they are all crosses of some sort.

 

[JTM]

How much of that consistency is attributed to your grade angus cow herd?   The true test to determine consistency would be putting a bull over a mongrelized cow herd and then evaluating uniformity.  The most consistent bull I've ever used was a Santa Gert. I bred him to a hodge podge group of cows and couldn't believe the uniformity in those calves.  That's the prepotency you get with a linebred breed/animal.  As prepotent an animal as Cherokee Canyon is, I wouldn't doubt a lot of that vigor coming through is from him.  He's a carcass bull for sure.

I think most of it is from the bull because my cow herd is actually a compilation of crossbreds and purebreds from 4 or 5 different places. Not sure if it's Cherokee Canyone coming through but I'd say it wouldn't be a bad thing. I think he looks a lot like RB Eagle 148th too.

 

[cornish]

consistent for me-- is I want to know what they will look like before they are born.  I don't care if they add phenotype quality,, or take away from it.  Doesn't matter, just so I know that no matter what the female-- all offspring will be alike.  Works the same for carcass traits.  Consistent also carries into the next generation, and predicting what they'll breed like. 

Consistent also refers to breeding ability- when they're fertile- when they're not- how many females they can cover- and still keep flesh. 

I don't like to talk about breeding peices- b/c with the good come the bad.  i like to refer to them as tools-- b/c I've never seen a bad tool in a tool box-- might see some that are virtually worthless- but still good for something.

Not very many people in this game even have consistency, IMO- or even know what it is, let alone desire it.  Most people actually breed for the opposite-- trying to cover all bases-- instead of doing one thing really good.

 

[jaimiediamond]

How much of that consistency is attributed to your grade angus cow herd?  The true test to determine consistency would be putting a bull over a mongrelized cow herd and then evaluating uniformity.  The most consistent bull I've ever used was a Santa Gert. I bred him to a hodge podge group of cows and couldn't believe the uniformity in those calves.  That's the prepotency you get with a linebred breed/animal.  As prepotent an animal as Cherokee Canyon is, I wouldn't doubt a lot of that vigor coming through is from him.  He's a carcass bull for sure.

we had that with a white shorthorn bull that we used last year. Can't believe how uniform the calves are from him. He bred cows with frame score of 4-6.5 or 7 and the calves are just great.  There isn't a purebred cow in the bunch and they are all crosses of some sort.

I actually have had the privilege of seeing bulls doing similar things as what that bull of yours has done.  In fact just looking at some of the calves you know the sire regardless of the dam's heritage.    For me consistency is a whole package of traits, phenotype, performance, milk for heifers retained and the end result carcass.  It is rewarding to see these bulls work successfully in this case I am looking at Shorthorn, Angus, and Simmental. 

 

[Hilltop]

I am thinking that a son of one of the bulls you talked about in your initial post may be showing consistency as does his sire. It is quite easy to pick his calves out of the groups. He better as he will breed form 30 to 45 females depending on how Momma's AI goes. So far so good and crossing our fingers for a full brother to General as ol 31L has gone 23 days to Legend now. <beer>

 

[RyanChandler]

How much of that consistency is attributed to your grade angus cow herd?   The true test to determine consistency would be putting a bull over a mongrelized cow herd and then evaluating uniformity.  The most consistent bull I've ever used was a Santa Gert. I bred him to a hodge podge group of cows and couldn't believe the uniformity in those calves.  That's the prepotency you get with a linebred breed/animal.  As prepotent an animal as Cherokee Canyon is, I wouldn't doubt a lot of that vigor coming through is from him.  He's a carcass bull for sure.

I think most of it is from the bull because my cow herd is actually a compilation of crossbreds and purebreds from 4 or 5 different places. Not sure if it's Cherokee Canyone coming through but I'd say it wouldn't be a bad thing. I think he looks a lot like RB Eagle 148th too.

148th is a beast. He's upclose in about half of my cows pedigrees