what to do?

[shorthorngirl2010]

ok guys (and gals) i need help! last week, one of my heifers i showed two years ago prolapsed.  went in called the vet, she came out and we fixed the heifer right up... BUT... doc said that beings the heifer was in her last trimester when she prolapsed, she damaged her vaginal wall ??? and because of this, from now on, carrying a calf will be iffy because there's a good chance she'll prolapse every time she's in that third stage.  so, question i need help with is: do i sell the cow or keep her and flush her? or will flushing be possible? inputs and opinions would be GREATLY appreciated as we've never flushed a cow in our herd!!

 

[aj]

good question...I don't know.

 

[DL]

ok guys (and gals) i need help! last week, one of my heifers i showed two years ago prolapsed.  went in called the vet, she came out and we fixed the heifer right up... BUT... doc said that beings the heifer was in her last trimester when she prolapsed, she damaged her vaginal wall ??? and because of this, from now on, carrying a calf will be iffy because there's a good chance she'll prolapse every time she's in that third stage.  so, question i need help with is: do i sell the cow or keep her and flush her? or will flushing be possible? inputs and opinions would be GREATLY appreciated as we've never flushed a cow in our herd!!

I assume you are talking vaginal prolapse? Describe it - size? Did it go back in when she stood up? How pregnant is she? When did it start? Is she sound on all feet? Does she lay down more than other heifers who are pregnant? Does she dog sit? Who is she bred to?? anything else you can think of 

 

[shorthorngirl2010]

yes, it was a vaginal prolapse, it was fresh when i found her and was a little bigger than a basketball, but wouldnt go back in when she stood up and walked around. she is 7 months bred to a SAV Final Answer son.  She has had minor rectal prolapses throughout the past year, but we assumed that was just because she was so fat from being of feed.  She is very sound on all feet and has NEVER come up sore for any reason.  I have not noticed her laying down more than the other heifers, nor have i noticed her dog-sitting.  She honestly seemed perfectly normal until last week.  We fixed her up and she even seems fine now, though a little sore...

 

[DL]

SHG2010 - so I assume by fixing her up the vet sutured her so that she can't prolapse again?

Vaginal prolapses have a heritable component - and the fact that she is prolapsing at 7 months and that that prolapse does not reduce (goes back in) on its own when she stands up is not a good sign -

it all has to do with abdominal fill / pressure and vaginal wall structure etc so since you really can't change vaginal wall structure the only thing you can do is provide more concentrate and less fiber (ie with the goal of decreasing rumen.GI size and therefore pressure) which may not be an option for you

Many older cows (if you go out at night with a flashllight on "crotch check") will prolapse their vaginal a titch (barely viisible between the vulvar lips to maybe grapefruit sized - don't ya hate it when food is used for size?? ??? ???) but it returns to normal when they stand and is not an issue when they calve or next go round except very late in pregnancy

From your description of your heifers problem and the knowledge that there is a heritable component I would be hesitant to flush her and I would probably consider shipping her after she weans her calf -

there may be something surgical your vet can do depending on the damage she saw to the vaginal wall - and while I don't think she would necessarily have a problem carrying another calf - chances are real good that you will be dealing with prolapses bigger and earlier with possible complications of stepping on it, necrosis (death of tissue), infection etc - I would cut my losses unless your vet thinks there is a fixable problem - sorry

 

[CAB]

  I agree to an extent with Lana, but I know that if she were potentially a very good cow prospect, I would have to give her one more chance to see what happens. I have had prolapses in 1st calf heifers then never had a subsequent prolapse again. I do not think that she is a good candidate for use as a donor for many reasons. I think that there are way too many cows being flushed as is evident by all of the embryos for sale and stored in tanks. JMO.

 

[ROMAX]

We had a cow do this last winter about 4 months before she calved.Pushed it back in every day for 5 days(called vet didn't seem to concerned about it)When the vet came to fix her up he put a big stainless button in her.Now i was at work at the time but my dad was there and described it tome so here it goes a stainless bolt with a plastic washer inserted into her vagina and pushed up through her hip(bolt had a sharp tip and she had lots of freezing)another stainless washer on the outside and a cotter pin to hold it all in place.the vet said not many people know about this procedure ,but said its the best as you don't have to be there and take anything out when she calves.also you can take it out or leave it in as we did and the skin has acually grown over it so it just looks like a patch of hairless skin.Also she had no troubles calving and we are keeping her in the her the vet strongly advised not keeping hefers out of her as it is heritable.hope this helps.

 

[CAB]

The pin & stainless steel washers are called a Johnson Button. I have never seen one left in after calving, but hey if it's not hurting anything. Brent

 

[DL]

While there is not necessarily one right answer in this situation I think we also need to consider the welfare of the heifer and the potential for complications should she be kept and bred back - if as stated there is damage to the vaginal wall and if it cannot be fixed or repaired then it seems logical to assume that the problem would recur - (and get worse) with each pregnancy - a little prolapse in a late cow that goes back in when she stands up is one thing (pretty much a nothing) but a bigger than a basketball prolapse in a 7 mo pregnant heifer is (IMHO) quite another - if as CAB suggests she be given another chance I think you would need to make a commitment to check on her 2x per day or so to identify prolapses early to prevent potential painful and potentially life threatening complications

 

[shorthorngirl2010]

guys i thank you so much for your opinions.  it has helped tremendously with the decision, and that is, to ship her once she has calved.  we figured that we have two full sisters to her, though not as good, but still same genetics.  she does currently have a heifer calf on the gound that looks just like her we were thinking about keeping, but now that ive found that it is a heritable trait, i may be rethinking!! oh well... theres other cows out there (haha)... again, i thank you for you time to post opinions!!

 

[DL]

guys i thank you so much for your opinions.  it has helped tremendously with the decision, and that is, to ship her once she has calved.  we figured that we have two full sisters to her, though not as good, but still same genetics.  she does currently have a heifer calf on the gound that looks just like her we were thinking about keeping, but now that ive found that it is a heritable trait, i may be rethinking!! oh well... theres other cows out there (haha)... again, i thank you for you time to post opinions!!

hey SHG - another tidbit for thought - if the vet believes that there is an injury that caused the prolapse then it suggests to me that in this case the cause is injury not necessarily genetics - so although it has a heritable component to vaginal prolapse (and although these tend to get worse every year) and although I think you are making the right decision in regards to the heifer with the prolapse - I would not be terribly worried about her relatives - or put slightly differently I think you made the right decision about the heifer, but chances are the relatives will not have the problem...did that make sense? ???

 

[red]

I've found that once they prolapse they tend to have problems down the line. We've always shipped them after calf is weaned.
I've never seen sibs have the same problem before.

Red

 

[CAB]

SHG 2010, could you possibly post a pic of your heifer in question please? Where are you from? I may be interested in your heifer, if you are going to lb her. I've never had that big of a problem with heifers after they have prolapsed. If you thought she was flush quality, she may be worth a bit of a risk. I also have never had one prolapse that the vet didn't say to sell. Brent

 

[DL]

Don't understand your last statement

While you might be willing to "risk it" I am not sure that that is in the best interest or welfare of the heifer

 

[shorthorngirl2010]

http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg304/shorthorngirl2010/?action-view&current=604cow.jpg
http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg304/shorthorngirl2010/?action-view&current=604.jpg
http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg304/shorthorngirl2010/?action-view&current=604calfhind.jpg

since posting pictures is kicking my behind!

 

[CAB]

  Lana, all I'm saying is that I have never had a problem with a young heifer/cow that has had a prolapse and yesterday SHG was talking about flushing this heifer, so I'm assuming that she is more than likely a pretty good kind of a heifer. If she isn't too far away from me, I'm not too scared of a heifer that has had a prolapse. When I was younger, and now, I am up for a bargain. I think that possibly giving the heifer another chance may be more pleasant for her than slaughter.  Just to be sure that you know, the animals here are well taken care of and if I do, or did buy this heifer in question, she will not suffer  or not be taken good care of. Sincerely, Brent

 

[DL]

  Lana, all I'm saying is that I have never had a problem with a young heifer/cow that has had a prolapse and yesterday SHG was talking about flushing this heifer, so I'm assuming that she is more than likely a pretty good kind of a heifer. If she isn't too far away from me, I'm not too scared of a heifer that has had a prolapse. When I was younger, and now, I am up for a bargain. I think that possibly giving the heifer another chance may be more pleasant for her than slaughter.  Just to be sure that you know, the animals here are well taken care of and if I do, or did buy this heifer in question, she will not suffer  or not be taken good care of. Sincerely, Brent

Not to belabor the point (or maybe to belabor it - you posted yesterday that there were many reasons not to flush her and now you are interested in buying her if the price is right because SHG thought of flushing her she must be of high quality although you admit that too many cows are flushed - I believe I am getting dizzy

My comment about welfare has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the heifer  - animals who prolapse are not comfortable - it is painful and irritating and that causes increased straining which causes bigger prolapses and the vicious cycle continues and sometimes in this vicious cycle the prolapse gets stepped on (now that is nasty) or starts bleeding or the tissue dies and that is painful (and the cycle continues)

The vet says there is an injury - it simply ain't going to improve -

Your rational is really anthropomorphism - the heifer has no concept of slaughter (see Temple Grandins web site) and I believe that in many instances for many of the animals we care for death is a far better alternative that life -

 

[ROMAX]

Was looking at the cows today and actually notced the cow that we put the bolt in has grown hair over the patch of skin, if you didn't know you wouldn't even notice the spot where it is.

 

[shorthorngirl2010]

well CAB the links to the pictures are posted.  Her heifer at side is out of SAV Final Answer and is a Feb baby we just pulled 5 days ago.  Ive been talking to Cowboy since he's all of about 30 miles away (clapping) may have him stop by the house and have him give me his opinion!

 

[farwest]

I don't get it, 5 days ago she was seven months pregnant bred to a final answer son, today you say you pulled a heifer calf out of her 5 days ago by final answer, am i missing something.