What's too young to make a decision to buy on a heifer? Pics added! Opinions?

[SlickTxMaine]

Looked at some heifers recently.  One, that my daughter likes is only 5 wks old.  Another is 5 mos.  They both look good, but I am concerned that at only 5 wks. old, she can change a lot.  What's everyone's experience on this?  Both I-80 heifers. Pics not the best - taken on cell phone. 
We plan to show at our local - small show and some jackpots.  No majors yet.  Opinion on these two are welcome. 

 

[BogartBlondes]

I'll agree that 5 weeks is a little young...I like the black heifer, she has grown into herself well. The gray heifer has a lot of growing to do before I would consider buying her. Both good heifers though.

 

[muleman]

The longer you wait usually the more they cost due to the risk factors from both parties involved.

 

[SlickTxMaine]

I like the black heifer as well, but my daughter prefers the other. We'll probably look at them again in a month and then make a decision.  Thanks.

 

[CAB]

The more time you have to wait the better. Both calves look similar to me. I personally would try to let your daughter decide. It will be great for her self esteem and independence. Hey, Mom & Dad trust my opinion!! Great for her growth as a person. JMO.

 

[Steve123]

Buy an "option to purchase" for $100 or $200 on the ones you like now.  Set the purchase price and pick an agreed purchase date (usually at weaning or a little before). Come back on that date with a trailer and take the ones you still want and leave the ones that didn't turn out.  On the ones you don't take seller keeps your option money, the ones you take the money is deducted from the set purchase price.
One stipulation: if the calf dies or is injured before the purchase date the money is refunded.
Sometimes traders will call you and try to buy your option or a dishonest seller will call and tell you the calf died.  Either way you get your money back and maybe a little more.

 

[SlickTxMaine]

Steve- great idea, but in this case the breeder is a local guy that we have dealt with in the past and he offered for us to give it some time and come back later and look. He also said if someone else was wanting to look at heifers he would let us know so we could make a decision a decision that time. 

CAB - I had the same thoughts as you. But sometimes the parents get so caught up in wanting the win, we forget about the possible life lessons.

It was pointed out to us that occasionally it looks like the little one may roach her back when she walks. We didn't see it while we were there - something that may go away or get worse with age?

 

[Telos]

I think the most important issue to consider in this situation is the genetics on the cow side. This is how I would make my decision. I do think I-80 is one of the most important Maines to come around in a long time. Just match up the maternal and make your pick that way or buy both. I personally like the grey one from only looking at the pictures but I'm liking those Charolais crosses especially if the dam and her genetics are to your liking.

 

[RyanChandler]

I prefer the cream heifer

 

[SlickTxMaine]

The dam for the black is a Dr who cow and the Grey is out of a chi/ charolais - Don't remember the exact breeding on her.

 

[Telos]

The dam for the black is a Dr who cow and the Grey is out of a chi/ charolais - Don't remember the exact breeding on her.

Well, hard decision...I-80 already goes back to one of the very best Dr. Who cows. I do like the black heifer's genetic makeup. She could work on total outcross bulls that have little Maine and no Dr Who genetics. Maybe something with some Charolais. Both good girls, IMO.

 

[RyanChandler]

When a pedigree is comprised of total outcrosses, why do you feel the need to go back over her with another total outcross?

 

[Telos]

I don't feel a need for particular genetics to always go back on outcross genetics . It depends on the genetics themselves and how you feel about their need to be repeated within a pedigree. There is is never a formula when it  comes to linebreeding or even using outcross material.

It simply is a personal decision, but when it comes to some linebreeding especially dealing with the WMW's, Dr. Who's and a few other close relatives you can run into consistent fertility issues along with some other unsatisfactory outcomes such as structure. The WMW's and their relatives almost always seem to works best on Simi's, Choralais and other breeds including Angus.

This clubby business is more about crossbreeding and maximizing heterosis. Completely different then breeding for seed stock.

 

[Warrior10]

Steve- great idea, but in this case the breeder is a local guy that we have dealt with in the past and he offered for us to give it some time and come back later and look. He also said if someone else was wanting to look at heifers he would let us know so we could make a decision a decision that time. 

CAB - I had the same thoughts as you. But sometimes the parents get so caught up in wanting the win, we forget about the possible life lessons.

It was pointed out to us that occasionally it looks like the little one may roach her back when she walks. We didn't see it while we were there - something that may go away or get worse with age?

If this was told to you from someone just looking at the pictures I would encourage you to go look at the heifer in person again and see if its truly an issue. Its unfair to discredit the heifer for a possible structure issue in a picture of her walking around using a cell phone camera....she could have been about to pick up a leg or something. In person you will be able to tell for sure, and maybe they were right and it will be a problem. Best of luck!

 

[RyanChandler]

This clubby business is more about crossbreeding and maximizing heterosis. Completely different then breeding for seed stock.

Heterosis is maximized at the 3rd (breed) cross. After that, you're going to experience regression.

 

[SlickTxMaine]

Muddy Creek - another breeder/ friend had looked at the heifers before us and mentioned it to the owner and he mentioned it to us when we were looking at them,  but none of us could see it that day. 

 

[Warrior10]

Muddy Creek - another breeder/ friend had looked at the heifers before us and mentioned it to the owner and he mentioned it to us when we were looking at them,  but none of us could see it that day.

Gotcha, good deal glad it wasn't just a view of a picture! I like both heifers. I think it is smart of you guys to go back and look at them at a later time.

 

[Telos]

This clubby business is more about crossbreeding and maximizing heterosis. Completely different then breeding for seed stock.

Heterosis is maximized at the 3rd (breed) cross. After that, you're going to experience regression.

So the experts say...

Actually the Black heifer (the one being discussed) is already linebred Black Maine genetics ( 3rd, perhaps more, generation Maine x Angus x Chi). This is why when she comes of age, I was just suggesting you might want to use an outcross bull (one with less % Black Maine). I have seen, used those genetics and feel like you can get into some foundamental problems if you go back to some more of the same tight genetics. The base on these individuals is already bred tightly. Linebred to Cunia's, Black Gold's, Etulason, etc..

 

[AAOK]

It is impossible to effectively evaluate a 2 dimensional object, no matter what is is. So, no one can give you an opinion of anything about these calves other than their profile.

I like the Redhead calf vs the others.

I do believe one can effectively evaluate a live calf in person at 5 weeks. I always had ours lined in order within 2-3 weeks after birth. Study! You need to learn this to win the game.

 

[renegadelivestock]

I think you should just let your kid pick! It's always easier to motivate kids when they think it is their idea! If they are proud of what they choose, and put in the time and dedication need to see the project through, then in my opinion that is the most important thing!