What's wrong with this ....

[firesweepranch]

OK, so I came across this video and red flags shot up when I watched it. Why would he be kept a bull? He can not cover his tracks, could he even keep up with a herd of cows?
Makes me wonder... why keep him a bull? Wouldn't this have shown up when he was a calf? I am not bashing anyone, just wondering why someone would leave him a bull...

http://www.kwdesigngroup.com/Maxanet/maverick/mavericklot_5.html

 

[Till-Hill]

Only reason I can see is his cool face marking because that bull would die in my pasture. That is sure something there! Does make you wonder!

 

[kfacres]

I'm not sure about you... but that is one cool designed front end on a beast... I just love everything about it- shape and set to shoulder blade, reach upfront, knee placement, head carriage, you name it...

I'm betting that he's a carrier of something, which will make him worth tons to club calf people, and I'm sure he's got a great pedigree, out of a 70,000+ plus donor cow.. and some new, super exciting bull...

 

[twistedhshowstock]

While I completely agree that I wouldnt personally breed to something like this.  I dont think we can necessarily say this would have shown up as a calf. Problems with flex and length of stride often show up later in life, and can be the results of injuries or arthritis.  I didnt see where it said the age of that bull, I may have just missed it.  Heck if he is ancient and arthritic we may be a lot more forgiving of his stride.  Again, I am not saying he is ok, just saying there are a lot of scenarios as to why he was left a bull.  I dont think the design of this bull is necessarily that bad, if you just saw a still pic of this bull your wouldnt really be that critical of him, but see him move and he falls apart.  That tells me that there is a high chance that there was a point in his life that he maybe didnt have an issue getting around.  Another thing, I also dont think this bull ever "covers his stride" look at the length of side and he isn't really a leggy bull.  Even if he is the freeest moving one you ever saw, I dont think that his hing leg is necessarily long enough to get up there into that mark left by the front foot.  The red flags are there for me if I am considering breeding to this bull, but I dont necessarily watch this video and say that this bull had to be bad from the start and wonder why they left him.  Unless he is ancient and arthritic at this point and was something exceptional in his day, I may wonder why he is still walking and why on earth you would video him at this point.

 

[CAB]

I'm not sure about you... but that is one cool designed front end on a beast... I just love everything about it- shape and set to shoulder blade, reach upfront, knee placement, head carriage, you name it...

I'm betting that he's a carrier of something, which will make him worth tons to club calf people, and I'm sure he's got a great pedigree, out of a 70,000+ plus donor cow.. and some new, super exciting bull...

 

He's listed as a 3C Macho x Maine X Angus. Link to another bull on the same sale.

http://www.kwdesigngroup.com/Maxanet/maverick/mavericklot_2.html
What do you all think of this bull?

 

[firesweepranch]

I'm not sure about you... but that is one cool designed front end on a beast... I just love everything about it- shape and set to shoulder blade, reach upfront, knee placement, head carriage, you name it...

I'm betting that he's a carrier of something, which will make him worth tons to club calf people, and I'm sure he's got a great pedigree, out of a 70,000+ plus donor cow.. and some new, super exciting bull...

 

He's listed as a 3C Macho x Maine X Angus. Link to another bull on the same sale.

http://www.kwdesigngroup.com/Maxanet/maverick/mavericklot_2.html
What do you all think of this bull?

The Macho bull is listed as a March 2010, so not almost 2 years old.

The other bull listed sure seems nice to me, but I am not a bull person. I was just looking at structure and movement...

 

[CAB]

I'm not sure about you... but that is one cool designed front end on a beast... I just love everything about it- shape and set to shoulder blade, reach upfront, knee placement, head carriage, you name it...

I'm betting that he's a carrier of something, which will make him worth tons to club calf people, and I'm sure he's got a great pedigree, out of a 70,000+ plus donor cow.. and some new, super exciting bull...

 

He's listed as a 3C Macho x Maine X Angus. Link to another bull on the same sale.

http://www.kwdesigngroup.com/Maxanet/maverick/mavericklot_2.html
What do you all think of this bull?

The Macho bull is listed as a March 2010, so not almost 2 years old.

The other bull listed sure seems nice to me, but I am not a bull person. I was just looking at structure and movement...

I thought that there were 2 or 3 Chooper sires bulls that looked good also. The length of body on the full baldy bull & length of neck makes him look to be what some PPL may want to make some cows out of.

 

[firesweepranch]

I thought that there were 2 or 3 Chooper sires bulls that looked good also. The length of body on the full baldy bull & length of neck makes him look to be what some PPL may want to make some cows out of.

OK, so that raised another flag for me. Is there another Chopper besides the Simmental Chopper (who is a purebred)? Those chopper bulls are listes as sim/maine/angus, but out of a PB Angus cow. So where does the maine come from?

 

[twistedhshowstock]

Is there some Maine somewhere back there in Chopper? He is a Steel Force x Meyer 734.  I was just trying to search and see if there may be some little inkling of Maine in him and saw that SEK has him listed as a Composite????

 

[CAB]

When I look @ the top/1st bull. I think there has to be a misprint either on the dam or with breed percentages. The other 2 Chooper sired bull make sense as to what they are listed as IMO.
These bulls are listed on Breedersworld upcoming sales Maverick & Austin.

 

[jaimiediamond]

That bull moves like he has been foundered.

I actually took a still from the video and if he had his head up he would have looked  sharper.  His underlying structure doesn't appear to be responsible for his movement which could be one of the reasons he is still a bull. I have never seen him in person and I don't know his history but on a quick video evaluation that is what I see.

 

[chiangus]

Painful to watch a bull walk like that, but it he could been fine earlier in life.

 

[CAB]

That bull moves like he has been foundered.

That is exactly the 1st thing that I thought when I watched the video.

 

[firesweepranch]

When I look @ the top/1st bull. I think there has to be a misprint either on the dam or with breed percentages. The other 2 Chooper sired bull make sense as to what they are listed as IMO.
These bulls are listed on Breedersworld upcoming sales Maverick & Austin.

Well, lot 1, 7 and 12 are all listed as Chopper x PB Angus, but the bulls are listed as Sim/Angus/Maine bred. That is what made me wonder if there was another Chopper bull out there? None of them seem to have white (which you do see with Chopper calves). I looked up Chopper on the Simmental site, and his dam is a 3/4 blood x 1/4 Angus. When you dig a little deeper, his maternal great grand dam is listed as 5/8 Angus x 3/8 BF. What is BF? I looked on the code list, and BF is not listed (maine is MA).
I guess I have way too much time on my hands right now! I was just looking because I was bored (subbing high school on my day off to pay for my cow habit   ). Several things concerned me about the bulls listed, with so many inconsistencies (where is the Maine coming from, unless it is a different Chopper) and the one that looked like he was struggling to walk. Founder huh? Never thought of that. I have seen horses that have foundered, but not cattle. The question is, can he adequately breed cows with a gait like that? I guess if you are pen breeding, but can he cover miles over a big field full of cows???
AI'ing is so much easier, IMHO  ;D

 

[Telos]

BF stands for Beef Fresian. 

 

[firesweepranch]

BF stands for Beef Fresian. 

So that would make Chopper a very small part of Beef Fresian??? Isn't like Holsteins? His great grand dam (maternal side of course) is OCC Miss 505H, bred by Ohlde Cattle Company. Wow. You would think he would throw more white, with that and Meyer 734 on the dam side. So if she was 3/8 Fresian, what does that make Chopper?