When using cidrs what is your breeding sequence?

[snoit]

We normally put cidrs in and give a gnrh shot we remove them after 7 days and give a Lutalyse shot. We breed anything that comes into heat 12 hours after we see it. Then on  day 9 we give a gnrh shot to who ever is not bred and breed the next day. What is your process?

 

[DSCSD]

personally I think anyone who is breeding cows that's aren't in a standing heat with semen other than the semen they have collected of their own bull ($2 vs $25) has a lot of money to waste.... which in that case im taking donations! A lot of people around here have been questions the gnrh shot on a time breed.... we are wondering how much it messes with the next cycle.... seems like the time bred ones that don't take don't catch the next cycle when they are with the bull and that's if they are even cycling. On my cows I gnrh when the cider goes pull at 7 days give est shot and heat detect. The boss man time breeds his.... but he has money and his own bulls collected and doesn't do the gnrh when the cidr goes in. we do the heifers on a 2 week cidr program...

 

[B K]

personally I think anyone who is breeding cows that's aren't in a standing heat with semen other than the semen they have collected of their own bull ($2 vs $25) has a lot of money to waste.... which in that case im taking donations!

If you implement timed AI correctly your pregnancy rates will still be acceptable. Depending on the operation you need to pencil out to see if you can afford the additional labor associated with estrus detection and handling. In most operations time and labor are what limit the use of AI, so TAI helps to make it applicable. There is a lot more in cost per pregnancy than just semen costs.

I would find it hard to believe that your cows are not cycling back because of the GnRH shot. GnRH causes the release of either Luteinizing Hormone (LH) or Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH). LH causes ovulation and FSH stimulates follicular growth. When FSH acts on the ovary it causes the follicles to release Estrodiol and Inhibin. Estrodiol stimulates the brain to release GnRH to the pituitary, which in the presence of Inhibin releases  LH. LH then targets the follicle and causes ovulation. So, provided the cow can produce a follicle which can ovulate, the second shot of GnRH induces the cows to ovulate if they have not already done so.

Snoit, what are your pregnancy rates with your protocol? When we TAI, we give GnRH at the time of insemination on day 10. 

 

 

[ejoe326]

Giving GnRH and then breeding the next day is not a protocol I'm familiar with but I am also not a synch expert.  I'm curious as to the mechanics of how it would be an advantage over giving GnRH to non-responder at time of breeding.  I also have not tried 48 hours for non-responders and have stuck with the 72-84.

We definitely don't have money to throw around and have used TAI with what I consider successful results.  80% on 1st group of 23 or 24 and 100% on 2nd group of 20.  The 2nd and 3rd years of TAI have been similar but did not hit 100 again and did set up more cows each time.  I agree that there is a gap before I see another cycle.  However there is quite a bit of of information on the nutrition behind this.  If you pull your cows off of grass to dry lot, set them up, breed them, and turn them back to good grass, embryonic death can be more of an issue than lack of cycling.  Another factor is when they last cycled before setting them up. 

 

[cg1975]

We have done timed ai for a couple of years now and we wouldn't do it any other way. We ai 250-300 per year and found that it has tightened everthing up and we have averaged 72 percent which included a very dry year. What BK is saying is correct and I do put down the small percentage of cows that recycle a little later to embryonic death. We have even used timed AI in some flushing programs to great success.

 

[snoit]

We have been averaging close to 70 percent doing it like this. That is the reason i asked if anyone did it that way because i have been reading to do it at the same time as breeding.

 

[snoit]

I was talking to a guy who does a lot of dairy cows as well as beef cows. On day 7 he pulls cidrs and gives a lutalyse shot  and he watches for heat on day 8 and 9 breeds anything that shows then gives a gnrh on the night of day 9 and then breeds all others 12 hours later. He is claiming mid 80's on his percentage of conception. He told me the reason a lot of beef guys don't do this is because it means one more time through the chute.

 

[Bulldaddy]

We normally put cidrs in and give a gnrh shot we remove them after 7 days and give a Lutalyse shot. We breed anything that comes into heat 12 hours after we see it. Then on  day 9 we give a gnrh shot to who ever is not bred and breed the next day. What is your process?

My protocol is very similar except I give Lute on day 6 and remove CIDRs on day 7.  That seems to tighten up synchrony so more cows can work as recips.  I don't bred or use any cow as a recip if not observed in standing heat. 

 

[DSCSD]

well aware of how gnrh works. I grew up with a father that anything less than 90% is unacceptable and im sure his dislike of TAI has rubbed off on me. Our cows are only off grass to come in the corral and get set up and when they come back in to get aied. Sometimes facts speak louder than science.... our facts are we have noticed non responders given gnrh when timed aied and didn't take are the ones that calve a few cycles behind. A few other ranchers have noticed the same thing. Last year a neighbor didn't give the gnrh shot and he had better luck. These cows are worked very calmly... crazy ones go to town and if you get after an animal here the boss man will send you to town as well.

 

[HMF]

("Sometimes facts speak louder than science.... our facts are we have noticed non responders given gnrh when timed aied and didn't take are the ones that calve a few cycles behind.")

We have noticed the same thing on or cows that have been TAI.  The ones that don't stick always end up 3 to 4 heat cycles behind the rest, and we are getting tired of it.  So this year we are going to change it up and go back to just a shot of lut and a gomer bull.  I had better conception rates when we use to do it this way also.  80 to 85% or <, compared to the 60 to 70% I have been getting with the cidrs.