When?

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Rustynail

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Mar 9, 2008
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195
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Utah
I have been getting alot of advice, and I am grateful for all of it. However, alot of what I am being told doesn't match.  When does everyone cut their calves.  I have heard from rubbers at birth until as late as possible, just before the next start to get to thick.
 

BCCC

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Jan 6, 2008
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Hillsboro, TX
well is their a possibilty you will keep any of them as bulls??? if not then you need to decided, do you want them to get more muscular from the hormones from their nuts, or do you want it to be as easy as possible?? if you picked the first choice then cut them right before they get thick necked, if you picked the second then cut them at bith
 

OH Breeder

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Feb 14, 2007
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Ada, Ohio
I learned that in the state of Ohio there are cruelity laws about castration. I found out because I made the mistake of lending my bander to a local family. They said they had got some holstien calves in and they wanted to casturate them. Sure. A few months later I get a vet calling me furious and saying he wanted to turn me in for animal cruelity. I said HUH? The family forgot to tell me the calves were 8-9 monhts old. Couple got back infections in their sac. Long story short, I said I would never had let them use my equipment on calves that large had I known. I would have recommended they call a vet. BLAH BLAH BLAH....anyways

If we band at about 30 to 60  days. Some of the better steers I waited and  had the vet cut them when they were a bit older. Usually cutting leaves a nice cod sac that fills when they fatten out. Depends. Some people want that look.

How old are your cavles?
 

Rustynail

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Mar 9, 2008
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Utah
The calf my son is going to show was born Feb 18.  I am thinking about waiting until July.  I will just take him the the vet.  I think it will help him develop some early muscle, and I am not afraid of temperment.  I sold his full brother as a bull Saturday and he was a big pup.
 

OH Breeder

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Rustynail said:
The calf my son is going to show was born Feb 18.  I am thinking about waiting until July.  I will just take him the the vet.  I think it will help him develop some early muscle, and I am not afraid of temperment.  I sold his full brother as a bull Saturday and he was a big pup.

You will be find.
 

Jill

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Jan 20, 2007
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Gardner, KS
You get different answers on this because everyone does it different.  We have banded everything at birth, we have waited till they were at the 6 month period and banded and also sliced the sack, we now work all the calves right after weaning (we wean at 4 months of age) and we castrate everything, there is no right or wrong answer, it is what works at your place.  If your doing it when they are older, just make sure you give the proper shots so they don't end up with problems.
As a side note we have banded a 2 years old bull and he went on the work great as a heat detector.  There isn't anything cruel about it, we used the bander appropriate for that size animal and gave the proper shots, he didn't get along any different than the younger calves did.
 

Bawndoh

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Dec 17, 2007
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On our commercail herd, we would band 40-50 calves a year as newborns (1 or 2 days of age).  I suppose you really have to know what you are doing.  You will run into some calves that have the tightest sac and are very hard to get into the ring, and others that have one nutt hidden way up in their body and you have to pry it out.  HA HA.  I managed to get them all the time though, and we have NEVER had an infection.  They are calved on 360 acres in April/May/June, and we dont give any shots to prevent infection or anything. 
Once again though, you will do whatever you decide to do.  I think my family has always been affraid of cutting them when they are older because we have heard so many horror stories about calves bleeding to death, or getting infected.  Where I live the vet seems to charge double what is normal also.  So every horror story is escaladed even more!!  Those darn vets (lol)
 

kanshow

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Kansas
We cut our calves at 30 - 60 days.    If we leave them as bulls and later decide they'd make a better steer - we callicrate (sp?) band them at whatever size they are - along with giving the proper shots.   

One of the biggest messes I've seen was done by a vet with an emascalter (sp?). 
 

red

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LaRue, Ohio
we band almost right away. just the way it's always been done here. No fuss or mess w/ it for us.

Red
 

Jill

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Our vet charges 4.20 for the castration and tetnus shot, we don't mess with them for that, never had an infection or a problem and it gives us the option if we have one that develops into something we would like to keep as a bull.
We stopped banding at birth because something about you can't get them high enough to cut off the supply of whatever (and they haven't always dropped) and they will still sometimes develop the bully neck hump.
 

garybob

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Feb 4, 2007
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My Dad's Cousin is a Gelbvieh Breeder. Daddy helped Him ''band'' some 10 and 12 month-olds that didn't make the "standards'' for SeedStock Plus' Bull Performance Test, using the "BackGrounder's Torture Device", also known as the Callicrate Bander.

OH Breeder, don't tell your Veterinarian.

GB
 

P-F

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Jun 11, 2007
Messages
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Ohio
We also band our calves at weaning and we have also done older bulls

So I couldn't hardly believe what oh breeder had written till I looked it up for myself
It is part of the Ohio Livestock Tampering Exhibition Rules


901-19-38 False, deceptive or unacceptable practices.
This is an optional rule.
The following are unacceptable practices:
(A) Castration of livestock for purposes of this rule which exceed the following criteria:
(1) Cattle over eight months of age;
(2) Swine over seventy-five pounds; or
(3) Sheep over seventy-five pounds.
(B) Showing any market livestock which has been treated in accordance with paragraph (A), (B)
or (C) of 901-19-04 of the Administrative Code when a side effect of the drug conceals,
enhances, transforms or changes the true confirmation or condition of the livestock.
(C) Any natural occurrence or surgical process which results in testicular tissue remaining in the
body of exhibition livestock except rabbits and poultry.
EFFECTIVE: February 13, 2004
Promulgated under: R.C. Chapter 119
Statutory authority: R.C.
Rule Amplifies: R.C.
Prior Effective Date: 6-1-98
R.C. 119.032 Review Date: 04-01-2003

It looks like it only applies if you are going to sell them as show steers and I am not sure what it means by Optional rule, it might be up to each county to decide if they want to enforce this one

 

justintime

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May 26, 2007
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Location
Saskatchewan Canada
I have used a Calicrate  bander and like it very much. We usually band at birth on commercial calves, and sometimes do another sort in the spring and use the Calicate bander for them. I have never had an animal get sick, go off feed, or act different in any way. In fact, I have seen large feedlots use it on 18 month old bulls and they have continued to gain as good as the steers they were being fed with. We have a 15,000 head feedlot near here and they use it routinely and have never had problems. My vets actually suggested it to me and they told me it is an excellent way to castrate older animals.

I have watched many animals that were banded at an older age, and I have never seen one that does not act normally. If I did see any signs of distress or reduction in feed consumption or gain, I would probably never use it again. But until that time, I will use it. Our vets routinely use it on older bulls that go to feedlots and they say they have not seen any adverse affects. They also use it for dehorning animals with large horns and they really promote it for this as well.
 

kanshow

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May 24, 2007
Messages
2,660
Location
Kansas
So I couldn't hardly believe what oh breeder had written till I looked it up for myself
It is part of the Ohio Livestock Tampering Exhibition Rules


901-19-38 False, deceptive or unacceptable practices.
This is an optional rule.
The following are unacceptable practices:
(A) Castration of livestock for purposes of this rule which exceed the following criteria:
(1) Cattle over eight months of age;
(2) Swine over seventy-five pounds; or
(3) Sheep over seventy-five pounds.
(B) Showing any market livestock which has been treated in accordance with paragraph (A), (B)
or (C) of 901-19-04 of the Administrative Code when a side effect of the drug conceals,
enhances, transforms or changes the true confirmation or condition of the livestock.
(C) Any natural occurrence or surgical process which results in testicular tissue remaining in the
body of exhibition livestock except rabbits and poultry.
EFFECTIVE: February 13, 2004
Promulgated under: R.C. Chapter 119
Statutory authority: R.C.
Rule Amplifies: R.C.
Prior Effective Date: 6-1-98
R.C. 119.032 Review Date: 04-01-2003

Wouldnt' this be more of a show rule so that you don't have animals being shown with extra hormones which results in extra muscle?  Just asking.. 
 

justintime

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Location
Saskatchewan Canada
For dehorning you put the band around the base of the horn and tighten it the same as for castration. The runner band indents into the skin fairly quickly and in 3 to 4 weeks the horn drops off. This seems to be a bloodless method of dehorning as the hole into the sinus cavity is completely healed over by the time the horn falls off. Again I have seen absolutelty no signs of distress of any kind and I have never seen an animal not head for the feed trough and eat normally when this is applied. There is no blood, no infection, and it doesn't seem to hurt the animal. Some people wrap some duct tape around the band and the horn untyil the band starts to embed itsef into the skin.
 

showgirl2010

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Jan 6, 2008
Messages
245
Location
Illinios
justintime said:
I have used a Calicrate  bander and like it very much. We usually band at birth on commercial calves, and sometimes do another sort in the spring and use the Calicate bander for them. I have never had an animal get sick, go off feed, or act different in any way. In fact, I have seen large feedlots use it on 18 month old bulls and they have continued to gain as good as the steers they were being fed with. We have a 15,000 head feedlot near here and they use it routinely and have never had problems. My vets actually suggested it to me and they told me it is an excellent way to castrate older animals.

I have watched many animals that were banded at an older age, and I have never seen one that does not act normally. If I did see any signs of distress or reduction in feed consumption or gain, I would probably never use it again. But until that time, I will use it. Our vets routinely use it on older bulls that go to feedlots and they say they have not seen any adverse affects. They also use it for dehorning animals with large horns and they really promote it for this as well.

Ya, I have seen that too.  It is really neat.  They just put the band at the base of the horn.  Wrap it in duct tape so it won't get rubbed off and in 30 days poof no horns.  LOL

Jamie
 

fluffer

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Sep 6, 2007
Messages
644
Location
Springfield, Ohio
I haven't read all the responses you have gotten, so this may be redundant.

If your raising club calves you will want to either band them at birth to prevent them from getting thick necks.  You can also cut them later on when they are still on the side of the cow.  We perfer to cut ours.  If you band them, they don't develop a cod and some of them end up looking like heifers in the "udder area" insted of having that small bag filled with fat (cod)

If your raising feeder cattle or fat steers you will want to cut or band them either right before you wean them or just after.  We typically put those big bands on our bull calves when we vaccinate them about 2 weeks before we wean them.  That way we aren't running them though the chute again just to steer them.  We also like to do it on the side of the cow because they are not under much stress, and they are still out at pasture where the ground they lay on is a little cleaner then it would be if we did it when they were in the feedlot.  You leave the testicles intacted longer on feeder cattle because it is a natural implant.  They prompte growth and muscle the natural way.

Either way MAKE SURE you give them a teatnus(sp?) shot!  Even if you just use those rubber bands.  We lost 2 calves from teatnus that we put rubber bands on.  Teatnus is cheap and a lot better then watching a calf die from teatnus!

Fluffer
 

olsun

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Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
434
I have a neighbor that bands all of his bull calves.  Two years ago he lost 5 calves at about a month of age. The vet said that the stress from the banding weakened the calves enough to cause them to get  coccidiosis, spelled wrong I am sure, but I have never been much of a believer in the bands. A knife is sure and simple.JMO.
 
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