Why do you think really functional cattle can't also be the showring type cattle

[jimmyski]

I did see a judge say "I am going to start with this white faced steer today....he has adequate finish..." and I was impressed....but then he continued..."the steer in second, and third are finished better than the steer standing in first, and they are a close pair, but just couldn't overcome the first steer...."
And besides that, well, I have indeed missed out. But that is ok, I am the one that had a heifer place second in class (and trust me I was THRILLED with second - first big time show I attended) until the judge said my heifer was more correct, deeper ribbed and was more fluid in her travels, but just didn't have enough "panashe" (spelling)....whatever!!!

Jimmyski: You sound like my kind of judge.....just never had one like you apparently!!!

And I have NEVER heard a judge comment on profitability. NEVER.  Just like I have never heard a cattle buyer mention hair.

Side note: I don't care what qualifies a judge, as along as he can do a good job and stay predictable...meaning he stays true to what he picks throughout the day or show!!!

Showheifer,
Thanks for clarifying and thanks for the compliment. I know some people could think that I'm talking out my wazuu, but as a fairly young judge trying to gain more respectability and the opportunity to judge more shows, I have always made sure to try and practice what I preach. I know that I have made my share of mistakes and have missed a steer or a hog before, but I am able to admit my mistakes and I am always willing and trying to learn. I make it a point to try and talk to the people that are in charge of the show and the parents of the children to find out ways that I can improve. If someone approaches me in a constructive manner I am always willing to listen because anything that I can do to make everyone's experience better(especially the kids), the better off it is for all in the future. Again, thanks for your comments, because it is comments like these as well, that alert me to problems and allow me to make some changes in how I present myself as a person and a judge. Good luck in the future.

 

[Show Heifer]

Chambero: Come to any show in the midwest and you will not hear a judge speak of carcass qualities.  I will take a note book for notes during our state fair and let ya know quotes!!!

And yes, if calves are hairy, square hipped, goosey fronted, the barns will sort those calves off and sell them seperate. And Heaven forbid if they are shorthorn colored or "marked up". That's a bigger discount!!!
Can't give you exact numbers but I was thinking several years ago, I lost about $90 per head.....I am a terrible paperwork person, so can't find the exact sheet, but that number is close.

I have some relatives in Texas that I have been meaning to visit, so might have to take in a few shows!! Have honestly never seen a slick show. Do you think that might be the differences in reasons for the placings????

Jimmyski: Are you locate in the midwest? Where do you judge shows?

 

[chambero]

As far back as I can remember (way before we went "slick" in 93), judges always placed a lot of emphasis and talked about potential carcass quality.

We may not have enough cattle sold down here with club calf breeding for buyers to know the difference.

Our slick sheer majors (San Antonio and Houston) are in late Feb and mid-March.

 

[DLD]

We don't slick shear in Oklahoma, but pretty much any market show you go to here, be it state or county level, grade and yield are talked and are a major factor in placings. As Chambero said, profitability is kind of tough to talk about in this context, but I have heard judges say that they'd like to have a pen full just like this one in the feed lot - that pretty much has to mean he/she believes they're the profitable kind...

I do agree that the colored ones, especially Shorthorns or any kind of roan or spotted ones get docked hard at the sale barn - but that's whether they're hairy, clubbie types or not. Often though, the clubbie bred ones will come through the ring pretty fat for their size and age, and that can hurt alot, too. Taking one that shows any noticeable signs of having been haltered and/or clipped is the kiss of death, though... unless there happens to be a couple of buyers there that think they can make show calves. I always give 'em plenty of time to grow out, but I have a friend in west Texas that sells everything he has left (fallborns) at the sale barn towards the end of April, and always a couple of 'em will bring like $2 a pound, from people wanting to show them.

 

[Jill]

I don't know about the rest of the midwest, but I can tell you in Kansas they do talk carcass and expected yield.  I don't know that I have ever heard anyone mention profitability from the National show on down.
I can tell you our clubbies and purebreds are both docked at the sale barn, but it isn't because they are clubbies, it is because they have been fed.  Most of the buyers around here are looking for the skinny ones they can put some feed in and turn them around and ours don't fit that description by any means, but we don't loose 90/head closer to 10-20 and the ones we sell off the farm more than make up for anything we could possibly loose at the sale barn.

 

[Show Dad]

We don't slick shear in Oklahoma, but pretty much any market show you go to here, be it state or county level, grade and yield are talked and are a major factor in placings.

See here's an example of the "judging problem." If functional cattle are what the "ring" should be identifying then what is a major factor should be on the short list of "only" factors influencing placings. As well, judges then need to severely dock entries that let's say have long hair in August that should have been lost in the spring. A judge cannot tell what the functionality of an animal is if the owners have altered the environment that animal is in to the point it lives in an artificial one. How many functional cattle live in air conditioning?

Or at the least judges need to make allowance for the difference.

Let me give you a real world example. I have judged woodworking at a number of country fairs and industrial art competitions over the years. One thing I take into consideration in judging 4H is finding out what tools were used. For if a kid only used hand tools, hand power tool or had access to a woodworking shop, I will look at how their skill was used with those tools. If they made something with a drawer and had a router and a dove tail jig the joint must be perfect or I will dock points. If all the had was a hand saw the fit of the joint can be looser and the type of joint used should be appropriate for the tool used. Just last year I gave Grand Champion Woodworking to a 12 year old who made a bathroom cabinet with nothing but hand tool. Reserve went to a 18 year old that brought in a project from shop class. His had a decent joint that when compared to the champion were about the same in tolerances. But they should have been perfect. He had the tools available to do so and it would have still taken half the time as doing it by hand. His shop teacher came over and asked (rather nicely I might add) why I had placed them the way I had. He soon understood and to his credit gave his student a quick lesson on attention to details.

What I see in beef judging is acknowledgement and legitimacy given to "things" when rewarding non-functional attributes with a champion ribbon. Start judging against such "things" and you will soon see a return to functional cattle in the ring. If I was judging at a July fair, lets say in Oklahoma, and had an animal that had been in a cool room I would be hard pressed to give it a ribbon at all (is there anything less than white).

Not that I am against the clubbies. Just go do your own thing and take the judges that like them with you. We might all just get along better that way. (lol)

 

[NHR]

We don't slick shear in Oklahoma, but pretty much any market show you go to here, be it state or county level, grade and yield are talked and are a major factor in placings.

See here's an example of the "judging problem." If functional cattle are what the "ring" should be identifying then what is a major factor should be on the short list of only factors influencing placings. As well, judges then need to severely dock entries that let's say have long hair in August that should have been lost in the spring. A judge cannot tell what the functionality of an animal is if the owners have altered the environment that animal is in to the point it lives in an artificial one. How many functional cattle live in air conditioning?

Or at the least judges need to make allowance for the difference.

What I see in beef judging is acknowledgement and legitimacy given to "things" when rewarding non-functional attributes with a champion ribbon. Start judging against such "things" and you will soon see a return to functional cattle in the ring. If I was judging at a July fair, lets say in Oklahoma, and had an animal that had been in a cool room I would be hard pressed to give it a ribbon at all (is there anything less than white).

Not that I am against the clubbies. Just go do your own thing and take the judges that like them with you. We might all just get along better that way. (lol)

Wow. You would not have any judges left to choose from.

Why is a heifer/steer with hair not functional?

Why is hard work with the animal to make it look its best not functional?

What is the definition of functional cattle?

Docking an animal because it has hair is borderline crazy. What hair does is allow an animal to be clipped and presented to hide possible areas of weakness, but not even the best fit job can hide non-functional (non-sound)cattle. If functional is used in reference to soundness then it does not matter with hair or no hair. But to me functional cattle are defined in heifers as sound, easy moving, easy fleshing, depth of rib, good hip set, triangular build, feminine appearance, and not wasty or over fat. Once the heifer is of breeding age and should be bred then you take the items listed and add continues to walk freely while bred, udder development, and freshness.

The only items that hair can help with is the freshness, some fleshing appearance, feminine appearance. Good hair and skin usually means the animal has been fed right and taken care of properly as a project.

Feminity has been talked about a lot on here so here are my reasons for looking critically at how feminine a female is. For a heifer/cow to maintain condition (health) and production on grass the female has to be able to lower its head down and it, so longer necked females have an advantage here because a short necked crappy built front ended female is going to struggle and take more energy and effort to maintain condition. Maintaining condition is key to production especially when there is a calf involved (functional). You can take that short fat necked crippled fronted female and watch her calf suffer because the milk production is not there. We look for feminity in the hip set also so that the female can get the calf out alive (functional). We look for feminity in udder development and ease of movement so a good calf can be weaned (functional).

So go ahead and dock an animal because it has hair!

 

[knabe]

one of the best words i have heard so far, triangular

i'm probably wrong on this, particularly with chambero's comments, but shouldn't show cattle be a standard deviation "above" commercial cattle in their makeup and hair is just a luxury for all of us who are blessed to have this much time?  i was talking with a guy this weekend  who runs 200-250 gelbvieh based cattle about 1110 -1300 pound cows with udders in general larger than most in the area.  i would take some of his cows over some i've seen in the ring, as well as a neighbor down the road, who has some larger 1300 pound cows who pack some meat.  perhaps i'm missing something that "powerful" females might lean towards too ambigous in sexuality, ie the head.  i haven't been to too many big shows in a while, though i'm going to CA state this weekend which has a maine class.

 

[NHR]

By the way.

I will take my so called "show cattle" over the pasture "functional" cows that I see everyday. My cattle are soo much easier keeping.

 

[red]

By the way.

I will take my so called "show cattle" over the pasture "functional" cows that I see everyday. My cattle are soo much easier keeping.

(clapping) since most of my cows are former show heifers, my functional pasture cattle are show cattle!

Red

 

[jimmyski]

Showheifer,
I am currently  located out of Ft. Collins, Colorado. I am currently at Colorado State working on a Master's degree. I competed collgiately for Colby Community College in Kansas and at the University of Nebraska -Lincoln. Hopefully within the next year I will be finished with my degree and then will be looking for a job either as a teacher and livestock judging coach at a Community College or if the right ranch job were to come along that would be something I would be very interested in. I'm sure you've seen my background posted on here before, but I believe in good functional cattle(I think everyone has a slightly different definition of this)  and the best one should win. A steer must have muscle, be finished, be able to walk, and have a decent look to him. Heifers must first and foremost be sound, with enough ribshape and depth of body. I preferr them to be square and level from hooks to pins with some muscle and they should look like a female.  With showmanship I differ a little bit with a lot of people in the fact that I expect the Senior's to have a basic understanding of animal science. They should know what the averages are for gestation lenght, heat cycle, rib-eye area. I feel that if they are going to show cattle, they also better be able to understand what goes into producing and raising these cattle. I also look at how the calf is presented, i.e. if it's clean and groomed, with hair trimmed and then most importantly how well the kid shows the animal ie.. how quickly the calf is set up and how well he stays set up, while also mainiting eye contact and knowing where I'm at in the ring at all times. Sorry to ramble here, just wanted post a few of my thoughts.

 

[knabe]

i'm guessing our shows aren't nearly as competitive, most don't have open classes, and some of the female classes are saturated with the bully heifers from all the "great one" breeding.  you are not rambling jimmyski, one of the best things a judge can do is turn around.

 

[Show Dad]

Wow. You would not have any judges left to choose from.

Why is a heifer/steer with hair not functional?

Why is hard work with the animal to make it look its best not functional?

What is the definition of functional cattle?

Docking an animal because it has hair is borderline crazy. What hair does is allow an animal to be clipped and presented to hide possible areas of weakness, but not even the best fit job can hide non-functional (non-sound)cattle. If functional is used in reference to soundness then it does not matter with hair or no hair. But to me functional cattle are defined in heifers as sound, easy moving, easy fleshing, depth of rib, good hip set, triangular build, feminine appearance, and not wasty or over fat. Once the heifer is of breeding age and should be bred then you take the items listed and add continues to walk freely while bred, udder development, and freshness.

The only items that hair can help with is the freshness, some fleshing appearance, feminine appearance. Good hair and skin usually means the animal has been fed right and taken care of properly as a project.

Feminity has been talked about a lot on here so here are my reasons for looking critically at how feminine a female is. For a heifer/cow to maintain condition (health) and production on grass the female has to be able to lower its head down and it, so longer necked females have an advantage here because a short necked crappy built front ended female is going to struggle and take more energy and effort to maintain condition. Maintaining condition is key to production especially when there is a calf involved (functional). You can take that short fat necked crippled fronted female and watch her calf suffer because the milk production is not there. We look for feminity in the hip set also so that the female can get the calf out alive (functional). We look for feminity in udder development and ease of movement so a good calf can be weaned (functional).

So go ahead and dock an animal because it has hair!


Call me crazy (NHR) but it might help that one not rush to conclusions not advocated. I never said dock for hair. I said dock or adjust for cool rooms. As for hair covering weaknesses well if you need it to have a cover up then how functional are the cattle?

I also never said one with hair is not functional nor did I say "show cattle aren't functional (Red). But hey must have hit too close for some by the "my cattle have more hair than yours " reaction I got. Again I have nothing against clubbies. Read all my posts on the subject. Yes I asked some tough questions but for both sides of the question. Please look at the subject of the topic before going off on some one. I offered my opinion knowing it wouldn't make all smile. The intent was to make us all think as to why the ring is the ring and what we want and expect. Give a person the benefit of the doubt before dinging the -karma button.

 

[DLD]

We don't slick shear in Oklahoma, but pretty much any market show you go to here, be it state or county level, grade and yield are talked and are a major factor in placings.

See here's an example of the "judging problem." If functional cattle are what the "ring" should be identifying then what is a major factor should be on the short list of "only" factors influencing placings. As well, judges then need to severely dock entries that let's say have long hair in August that should have been lost in the spring. A judge cannot tell what the functionality of an animal is if the owners have altered the environment that animal is in to the point it lives in an artificial one. How many functional cattle live in air conditioning?

Or at the least judges need to make allowance for the difference.

Let me give you a real world example. I have judged woodworking at a number of country fairs and industrial art competitions over the years. One thing I take into consideration in judging 4H is finding out what tools were used. For if a kid only used hand tools, hand power tool or had access to a woodworking shop, I will look at how their skill was used with those tools. If they made something with a drawer and had a router and a dove tail jig the joint must be perfect or I will dock points. If all the had was a hand saw the fit of the joint can be looser and the type of joint used should be appropriate for the tool used. Just last year I gave Grand Champion Woodworking to a 12 year old who made a bathroom cabinet with nothing but hand tool. Reserve went to a 18 year old that brought in a project from shop class. His had a decent joint that when compared to the champion were about the same in tolerances. But they should have been perfect. He had the tools available to do so and it would have still taken half the time as doing it by hand. His shop teacher came over and asked (rather nicely I might add) why I had placed them the way I had. He soon understood and to his credit gave his student a quick lesson on attention to details.

What I see in beef judging is acknowledgement and legitimacy given to "things" when rewarding non-functional attributes with a champion ribbon. Start judging against such "things" and you will soon see a return to functional cattle in the ring. If I was judging at a July fair, lets say in Oklahoma, and had an animal that had been in a cool room I would be hard pressed to give it a ribbon at all (is there anything less than white).

Not that I am against the clubbies. Just go do your own thing and take the judges that like them with you. We might all just get along better that way. (lol)

Grade and yield are on the short list of the most important factors in judging a market steer show, but they aren't the only ones. Structural soundness, and balance and eye appeal are important, too. Sorry if those last two offend you, but it is after all a market steer show. If grade and yield are all that matter to you, then you prob'ly need to ignore the show ring and find a carcass contest instead.

Here's my take on your woodworking contest analogy - it sounds to me like there ought to have been seperate divisions for a 12 year old working with hand tools and a high school senior with access to a complete set of power tools. Then if you know these differences when it's time to select between them for an overall champion, you can take that it into consideration, kind of like a Brahman heifer competing against a Shorthorn. But I've never been to a cattle show where there were seperate divisions for cattle that had been in a cooler and those that hadn't, or where the judge was provided with that information. If you were going to do that then next thing you know you'd have to have different divisions for the different prices they cost to begin with... That's just not how it works - you have to assume a level playing field and judge the cattle as they are presented to you that day. If you choose to ignore hair, that doesn't make you a bad judge, but if you start trying to guess which cattle have been in a cooler, or which ones have been profesionally fitted, or how much they cost, and trying to place them according to that - then you are a bad judge.

 

[Show Dad]

DLD - You see the dilemma. Do you separate into classes or is it up to the judge's discernment? If its the latter you have the makings of drifting right to the position we are currently in. I believe there is always someone who benefits no matter how a judge places animals (follow the money). So do the judges need to be given directives on what they are to judge on? Who is to decide that? Conflict abounds no matter what.

Market or show classes, hmmm.

DLD - Thanks for thinking. 8)

 

[NHR]

There are already market (so called commercial cross bred) and registered (have papers) heifer divisions in a lot of shows. You also have to remember that most of the commercial cattle operations use composite/hybrid breeding programs by crossing different breeds to get the best of each breed. So if you want to compete on a "market" level then find a "market" show.

I am not offended by the hair comments because our heifers would still do just as good if not better in a slick enviroment. The hair on our heifers is never more then 3/4" long at a show anyway. We use the hair to develop a smooth fresh appearance and yes to hide some minor weaknesses that all heifers have and also to make the good attributes stand out. And no we dont have a calf cooler but I would not care if someone did. I know several people who have invested in calf coolers thinking that it would bring home the banner but they forgot to buy/produce a functional animal to put in the cooler. Our gentics are not clubby and will not become clubby because my cattle have to go out and produce. People are shocked when they see our heifers in the wash rack racks because even wet they are just as good.

I have been in the commercial market for over 20 years and went into the showing business because my kids want to show. I can tell you that my show animals are more functional (by my definition) then any of the commercial cattle that I have ever had. Going through a 2-1/2 year long drought taught me a lot about functional cattle and my Shorthorns came through it better then the commercial cattle and they were cared for the same way.

Or maybe we should do the Little League thing and give everyone a banner for coming out and never even place the animals (sarcasm). Heck we dont even need to bring the animals to the show, just have the exhibitor come and get their prize.

 

[Show Heifer]

No wonder the show circuit is filled with finger pointing, back stabbing and "misunderstandings". Just look at the previous post (or the whole thread).

My thoughts:  Yes, show animals are different than pasture cattle. Is one better than another? Depends on what your goals are! 
Functional - now there is a term that has many interpratations. One of my main goals is to make money. So, my "replacement heifers" are still out in the pasture with momma, while my "show heifers" are weaned and eating $10 a bag feed (and eating 16 pounds of day to boot!!), under a fan and are getting rinsed twice a day (water is not free ya know!). Some of my friends have $1000 electric bills due to the calf cooler running. So the cost of input on these sets of heifers are VERY different. Will I sell enough to make up the difference?? I guess we'll see!
I have a shortie cow that has 2  inches of hair NOW, in the pasture on 100 degree days. How do you think she is fairing? Not well, I can tell ya. Not well, at all. While my slick haired cattle, although hot, are not suffering!

I know what your saying show dad (or I THINK I do!!). You're stating maybe it is time to agree that show cattle are show cattle, and commercial cattle are commercial cattle. One can not compete against the other. And that is fine, but admit the differences.  Am I CLOSE show dad????

My humble opinion: Show cattle are the beauty contestants, judged on outward appearances. A few go on to be something of substance, while others get a few wrinkles and fall into mediocracy or worse. While commercial, non-show cattle are the blue collar workers, who accomplish things based on productivity.  And yes, a few of them are good looking.  So yes, a few of each can go into either herd and be "one of the group", while some just can not do it.

I like show cattle. They are eye pleasing, and a bunch of hard work goes into presenting them.  (just read the hair post if ya don't believe it.) I appreciate what these cattle bring to the industry, one of which is being a gap closer between city and rural areas. BUT I also like commercial cattle. They make me money, they care for themselves (no fans, rinsing etc).

By the way, my neighbor just checked his cow herd....had one VERY high dollar show heifer bred. Three high dollar show heifers open. All four were handled the same...in a commercial situation!

 

[Jill]

We don't slick shear in Oklahoma, but pretty much any market show you go to here, be it state or county level, grade and yield are talked and are a major factor in placings.

See here's an example of the "judging problem." If functional cattle are what the "ring" should be identifying then what is a major factor should be on the short list of "only" factors influencing placings. As well, judges then need to severely dock entries that let's say have long hair in August that should have been lost in the spring. A judge cannot tell what the functionality of an animal is if the owners have altered the environment that animal is in to the point it lives in an artificial one. How many functional cattle live in air conditioning?

Or at the least judges need to make allowance for the difference.

Let me give you a real world example. I have judged woodworking at a number of country fairs and industrial art competitions over the years. One thing I take into consideration in judging 4H is finding out what tools were used. For if a kid only used hand tools, hand power tool or had access to a woodworking shop, I will look at how their skill was used with those tools. If they made something with a drawer and had a router and a dove tail jig the joint must be perfect or I will dock points. If all the had was a hand saw the fit of the joint can be looser and the type of joint used should be appropriate for the tool used. Just last year I gave Grand Champion Woodworking to a 12 year old who made a bathroom cabinet with nothing but hand tool. Reserve went to a 18 year old that brought in a project from shop class. His had a decent joint that when compared to the champion were about the same in tolerances. But they should have been perfect. He had the tools available to do so and it would have still taken half the time as doing it by hand. His shop teacher came over and asked (rather nicely I might add) why I had placed them the way I had. He soon understood and to his credit gave his student a quick lesson on attention to details.

What I see in beef judging is acknowledgement and legitimacy given to "things" when rewarding non-functional attributes with a champion ribbon. Start judging against such "things" and you will soon see a return to functional cattle in the ring. If I was judging at a July fair, lets say in Oklahoma, and had an animal that had been in a cool room I would be hard pressed to give it a ribbon at all (is there anything less than white).

Not that I am against the clubbies. Just go do your own thing and take the judges that like them with you. We might all just get along better that way. (lol)

My cooler is running and my cattle are in it.  It is 102 degrees outside with an expected heat index of 118 why would I not want them in a cooler.  We show only heifers and our cooler is stays between 60-65 degrees, that is the optimum temperature for performance, why would I not want them comfortable and eating?  I can tell you we showed for 12 years without a cooler and it doesn't may one bit of difference, those that work with their cattle have hair.  I right now have 2 big heifers that have been treated the same, they are in a cooler from sun up to sun down one has fabulous hair and the other looks like she has been slick sheared, hair is 90% genetics.
When you do a woodworking project you are altering the natural environment of that piece of wood, you have cut it, pieced it, sanded it, stained it and put some type of lacquer finish on it, you have not done it to hide the wood, but to enhance the natural beauty that was already there, I don't look at cattle any differently, if you slicked off my cattle they would still place where they are placing, they are good, sound, functional (and I might add bred) cattle, hair just enhances what is already there.

 

[NHR]

We don't slick shear in Oklahoma, but pretty much any market show you go to here, be it state or county level, grade and yield are talked and are a major factor in placings.

See here's an example of the "judging problem." If functional cattle are what the "ring" should be identifying then what is a major factor should be on the short list of "only" factors influencing placings. As well, judges then need to severely dock entries that let's say have long hair in August that should have been lost in the spring. A judge cannot tell what the functionality of an animal is if the owners have altered the environment that animal is in to the point it lives in an artificial one. How many functional cattle live in air conditioning?

Or at the least judges need to make allowance for the difference.

Let me give you a real world example. I have judged woodworking at a number of country fairs and industrial art competitions over the years. One thing I take into consideration in judging 4H is finding out what tools were used. For if a kid only used hand tools, hand power tool or had access to a woodworking shop, I will look at how their skill was used with those tools. If they made something with a drawer and had a router and a dove tail jig the joint must be perfect or I will dock points. If all the had was a hand saw the fit of the joint can be looser and the type of joint used should be appropriate for the tool used. Just last year I gave Grand Champion Woodworking to a 12 year old who made a bathroom cabinet with nothing but hand tool. Reserve went to a 18 year old that brought in a project from shop class. His had a decent joint that when compared to the champion were about the same in tolerances. But they should have been perfect. He had the tools available to do so and it would have still taken half the time as doing it by hand. His shop teacher came over and asked (rather nicely I might add) why I had placed them the way I had. He soon understood and to his credit gave his student a quick lesson on attention to details.

What I see in beef judging is acknowledgement and legitimacy given to "things" when rewarding non-functional attributes with a champion ribbon. Start judging against such "things" and you will soon see a return to functional cattle in the ring. If I was judging at a July fair, lets say in Oklahoma, and had an animal that had been in a cool room I would be hard pressed to give it a ribbon at all (is there anything less than white).

Not that I am against the clubbies. Just go do your own thing and take the judges that like them with you. We might all just get along better that way. (lol)

My cooler is running and my cattle are in it.  It is 102 degrees outside with an expected heat index of 118 why would I not want them in a cooler.  We show only heifers and our cooler is stays between 60-65 degrees, that is the optimum temperature for performance, why would I not want them comfortable and eating?  I can tell you we showed for 12 years without a cooler and it doesn't may one bit of difference, those that work with their cattle have hair.  I right now have 2 big heifers that have been treated the same, they are in a cooler from sun up to sun down one has fabulous hair and the other looks like she has been slick sheared, hair is 90% genetics.
When you do a woodworking project you are altering the natural environment of that piece of wood, you have cut it, pieced it, sanded it, stained it and put some type of lacquer finish on it, you have not done it to hide the wood, but to enhance the natural beauty that was already there, I don't look at cattle any differently, if you slicked off my cattle they would still place where they are placing, they are good, sound, functional (and I might add bred) cattle, hair just enhances what is already there.

A positive Karma Point for you. It is true good cattle are good with or without hair!

 

[Show Dad]

I know what your saying show dad (or I THINK I do!!). You're stating maybe it is time to agree that show cattle are show cattle, and commercial cattle are commercial cattle. One can not compete against the other. And that is fine, but admit the differences.  Am I CLOSE show dad????

SH - Spot On!! Actually, you said it better than I did!

Jill - Good thought.  Here are some follow on questions: what is the wood for? Therefore, what are cattle for? Is the ring judging cattle on what they are for?