Why is big bad?

[farmboy]

someone tell me why anything over 1350 is docked in a show for being to big

 

[TMJ Show Cattle]

Because of the misconception that steers that weigh 1350 or more,[some 1300] is not what the consumer wants on his or her table. College judges and feedlot judges say they can't be easy feeders and will cut darker carcasses.Every steer that we have butchered and ate ourselves over the years have been finished at 1260 and up to 1370lbs. Without a doubt the calves from 1310 to 1360 were always the best tasting. All fed the same way.Most steers that get up to the 1325 to 1360 get rolled in the show ring for being too big framed. Too much bone,not enough cutability and so on and so forth.It has been a silent joke for years and still is,really. Give me a calf that is 52-53 inches tall,adequate bone and NOT so deep bodied[which is a waste in itself] weighing 1325lbs anyday.[In some cases up to 1350or60.

 

[farmboy]

thats funny. when i'm at the store and see a steak i typically don't think "man that thing came from a 1350 pounder. i want that one from the 1250"

 

[Chap]

I don't think we are quite as finicky in IA and IL.  I would venture a guess that a 1325 - 1360 pounder wins the Iowa State Fair and most of the county fairs that I see will use a 1350-1450 lb steer.  We do have ADG requirements of >2.4 lb/day.  ideal for me would be 1285-1450 and i am happy anywhere in that range.  If the best one weighs 1500, then i can use him as well.  We should try to choose cattle that aren't in danger of being discounted by large carcasses (>950 or >1000 depending on the packer), but the simple statement of good ones up and poor ones down holds true for me. 

 

[okcc]

I was told that packers want uniform sized steers so when the cut them into quarters they will fit in same size packaging. And also for feed efficiency. Maybe this is wrong?

 

[farmboy]

i took a steer last year that was 1440 on paper and we got second in class to an under finished flat muscled calf just because he was that big. his comments were that my steer was a true meat wagon but he was too big. he picked a 1370 for reserve. same guy judging this year

 

[Show Dad]

I already know I am going to take in on the chin for this, but here it goes.

The reason is quite simple, show steers, those out of multi-crossbreeding for the type that wins, can't flesh out and become "stale" (or dark cutters) when going to that weight (shoot the arrows now). Though I have seen very few judges will to back that up with lower placement. (Too many judges don't know a good carcass when it is standing in front of them.)

Packers have seen the average carcass weight increase for the past decade or so. So the judges are not in line with the market, no surprise. (I've said it before, most judges are judging cattle with little thought of their intended purpose.) The 1280 lbs ideal weight for a steer is a myth. Fleshing ability according to frame size, IMF ability and structure is what the market is looking at.

JMHO

 

[farmboy]

well the calf we are taking this year isn't framey. he is about 52 inches and thick thick thick. he's not extremely fat either. i'd say he is perfect  8)

 

[Sammy]

OK I know that this is primarily a show cattle board and some folks will differ but here goes.

I spent some time last week with a fellow that is very involved with an organization that feeds and markets over 200,000 head of feedlot cattle a year and has a 1,000 plus cow herd and would easily be described as a leader in the industry.  We were talking about how now the "ideal" show steer is probably the most removed from production cattle that it has ever been.  His kids show steers very competitively but as he said it is the "most removed that it has been in my lifetime".  There are no longer discounts for carcasses over 1000 pounds and in fact the "standard" carcass has been listed at 800 pounds for some time now.  With fewer and fewer cattle on feed they take them bigger with a target of 1400 to 1500 pounds, wanting the kind of cattle that can do that without excessive backfat, targeting .5".  There are discounts imposed for REA that are too large and they want these cattle under 20 months of age at harvest.  Now the above criteria remove most show steers, particularly the age factor in the southwest and also in the Midwest where coming 2 year old are also used but that is another story.

Steer judges pick what is put in front of them and most of them are university people that don't own or feed cattle.  We all like a show and it is fun.  Runway models in Italy are interesting to look at too, but 6' tall 100 pound women are probably not the ideal female in any of our eyes.  So with that being said, a steer show is a steer show and when he talks reasons in the final drive about his pick being ideal for the industry realize that the comment is without much validity.

 

[showgirl2232]

i was always told that it not always the consumer that doesn't like the weight or the size of the big steers
or larger framed steers it is the processing plants because they are longer and harder to hang in the coolers
i guess they are to close to the floor or touch the floor or something like that there coolers have a hard time
hanging them because of there length and the height in there coolers.just what i was told and i know our
processing plant charges a certain fee if they are large i don't really know if they go by weight or frame size
i would imagine frame size but i have not come across that problem yet.

 

[Show Dad]

My Uncle retired from a major packer in the midwest and he has said that it's simple math. If a plant can process 1500 head a day, you make more money ( ) if the carcasses weigh more. (Sorry all you Lowline breeders). Simply put you have more product to market for your efforts. And here again the grading of the carcass can make or break a plant.

I always thought that length would be a problem but only in the oldest of plants (30+ years old). Actually today short ones can cause some slow down of the line. Horns are another thing that will take longer to work through. Dehorning will slow the line down 10-15%.

If judges understood why feeders and packers did what they did and then judged accordingly, that would put the "market" back into a market beef show.

 

[bjs]

i love big cattle, as long as they are fuctional....my past two steers have weighed 1389 and 1341 and been champ crossbreds at my fair in indiana, so not all judges are stuck on 1250

 

[Steer4Caddy]

It's consistency in the market.  Big cuts don't fit the "box" and some do drag the groung on the lines.

 

[Show Heifer]

Has anyone heard of "the box"? It is what the packers use to box up carcasses. If a carcass is too big it doesn't fit, therefore is hard to handle simply due to the inconvience.

Consumer point of view: If I am the purchaser for a family of four, and I want to buy steak I need 4 steaks. A ribeye will sell for $9.99 per pound. If a steak is 15 square inches, it might weigh 3 pounds, or a total of about $30.00. If a ribeye steak is 10 square inches, it might weigh 1.5 pounds, or a total of
$15.00. That is a savings of half price. It is easy to say which will probably be purchased.
This example can be used for any cut of meat.
Bigger isn't always better.

Sammy, you are right about the steer show being worlds away from the feedlot, I agree. I would also add that the show heifer is worlds away from the range land 99% of heifers live on.

And to whoever mentioned the 6 ft model weighing 100 pounds: EXACTLY. Kinda like show heifers (front pasture type).... love to look at them, but if ya want something that will make you money and survive on a modest income, ya gotta go with the "not exactly model  (front pasture) material"  type.

 

[LazyGLowlines]

My Uncle retired from a major packer in the midwest and he has said that it's simple math. If a plant can process 1500 head a day, you make more money ( ) if the carcasses weigh more. (Sorry all you Lowline breeders). Simply put you have more product to market for your efforts. And here again the grading of the carcass can make or break a plant.

No offense taken. I just talked to a commercial breeder yesterday who donated a couple 1/2 blood lowline steers to 4-H kids.  Both steers won their perspective classes - one weighed around 1050 and the other around 1270.  I'm sure the kids who raised them didn't put as much feed into these steers as the 1300+ pound steers.  Fullblood lowlines are too small for the packers anyway and are used more in the 'niche' markets, like grass-finished beef.  But the 1/2 bloods are being used commercially today. I doubt the packers know the difference.

 

[SKF]

Last year my daughter had a steer that weighed in at 1486 and went on to be the Res. Grand Champion steer. He looked great and that is where he needed to be. He was not a real framy type steer just very thick beast. He was one of the easest feeding steers he would look at food and gain weight. I thought his size would hurt him but he was finsihed where needed to be.

 

[showsteerdlux]

Has anyone heard of "the box"? It is what the packers use to box up carcasses. If a carcass is too big it doesn't fit, therefore is hard to handle simply due to the inconvience.

I have always heard this to. I know some pork things are different, however, I was in the worlds largest pork slaughter house today, and there wasn't a single "box" in the plant as far as meat being put in.

 

[LT]

Remember the judge does have the final say.  We have seen a judge use a "lame" excuse to NOT use a steer or heifer if they don't like them.  (not your reputable guys)  Hope you get one of those one day Zach!!!

Chin up and go in with a positive attitude.  Sometimes they way you present yourself means everything.  Forget about last year and don't let the judge know what you are thinking!

LT

 

[Show Heifer]

showsteernc:  It isn't LITERALLY a physically touchable box. It is a requirement that packers have for hanging space in coolers, trucks, etc. 

 

[justintime]

When we fed cattle there was a serious price drop on carcasses of 851 and over. It was a big drop, so we tried to make sure we didn't have cattle on feed that would produce these bigger carcasses. 

I just checked the stats on fed cattle slaughtered in June here in Canada. The average carcass weight in Alberta, was 837 lb which means to me that there are lots of carcasses over 851 if the average was 837.The last time I checked the US stats were very similar to this. The discount for big carcasses has moved way up to almost 1000 lbs. I commented on this a few months ago, when I related a conversation I had with one of the biggest livestock buyers in this area. He told me that we, as seedstock producers, were not following market trends. He said that he was able to purchase entire semi load lots of uniform cattle 15 years ago, and do it all day long, and that he is not able to do this any longer. He said if he buys one or two pot loads of uniform cattle a day, he is doing good. He said that the uniformity of the cattle he sees had decreased drastically, and that there are too many smaller framed cattle that will  not stay on feed long enough to get to a desired weight. Of course, this was just one man's opinion, and I have never thought of cattle buyers as being the smartest people on the planet, but this conversation did make me do some thinking.

So, one question that comes to mind is the obvious one.... if the feeders and packers are wanting cattle that will produce carcasses that are a little bigger than a few years ago, why is it that the seed stock industry appears to be heading in the other direction? Are seed stock producers just trying to change the shape of the package rather than the weight of the package?

Last spring, I had a well known cattleman from the US go through the bulls in our bull test. I was totally shocked at the bulls he picked out of the pen. He picked out the smallest framed bulls with the poorest performance. He kept going back to one bull and walked around him several times. Finally he said, "that may be one of the best bulls I have seen this year".  I said to him, that he was made right, however, he did not have enough performance and we were even considering not putting him in the sale. This bull was pretty, but he weighed 900 lbs at 365 days.... which in my world, does not pay many bills. This cattleman then said " you cannot get them too small framed for me". I replied that just because the pendulum started to move, regarding frame size,does not mean that we should run to the far end of it as fast as we can.  I understand that we continually will see changes in type in the industry, but I hope we are smart enough to pay at least a little attention to basic industry demands.