I'm researching different types of stock dogs for a potential purchase. I'm currently the family stock dog lol, and am not getting any younger or thinner and am a dog lover. I have a fairly quiet herd of former show cattle, I'm looking for a breed that will help gather and occassionally help load. Possibilities of doing agility or something like that also. I've researched border collies and australian sheps. Anyone want to give me some advice, or critic (oops sp!) some breeds to help me out? (dog) (thumbsup) Thanks!
working stock dogs
- Thread starter justme
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mlazyj
Active member
Well you have a ton of chioces and million ways things can turn out . For what it sounds like you have I would strongly suggest NOT getting a border collie that is hanging tree or McNabb bred . They have way to much bite and are reall amped up . I haven't seen a aussie that work stock worth a crap . I'am sure there are some I just haven't seen one . Heelers can be good if you need a dog to push ,they aren't really herding dogs .The thing I like about heelers is they will stay by you . Border collies if you don't have them working they will find something to herd, that means they are probably in trouble.Bottom line is herding stock dogs need a job everyday . Good Luck
kfacres
Well-known member
The second 1/2 of the post above me is very well put.. Personally, we have had both Blue Heelers, and BC's. I like quite a bit about both. THe BH are exactly that.. heelers.. they aren't much for going out to round up. now, on the other hand the BCs are much better at this.. by can be high spirited.. and need quite a lot of work, training, and sometimes money to pay for both. BC's must be penned up when not in use, and NOT TIED UP!
Some of the best dogs I have had, were an F1 BC/ BH... They seem to take the best of both worlds.. Our current BC female (which is a direct import from Scotland), I have been thinking of breeding.. and can't decide if I'd rather have half breeds, or purebreds... If I could time it just right- I'd run her with both, and expect both types of pups.. Of which I wouldn't mind! (thumbsup)
One thing to keep in mind is that a bad working dog, is far worse than no dog at all. A good, to great working dog takes alot of work, but can really pay off, and SAVE A TON OF STEPS AND headache
Some of the best dogs I have had, were an F1 BC/ BH... They seem to take the best of both worlds.. Our current BC female (which is a direct import from Scotland), I have been thinking of breeding.. and can't decide if I'd rather have half breeds, or purebreds... If I could time it just right- I'd run her with both, and expect both types of pups.. Of which I wouldn't mind! (thumbsup)
One thing to keep in mind is that a bad working dog, is far worse than no dog at all. A good, to great working dog takes alot of work, but can really pay off, and SAVE A TON OF STEPS AND headache
ROAD WARRIOR
Well-known member
I'm a Kelpie fan myself. RW
trevorgreycattleco
Well-known member
I like the way my heeler stays right with me all the time. All I have to say is get em up and he is off gettin cows gathered. The problem I have had with him is teaching him when to quit or when not to chase. He is only a year and a half old so I am patient. Great with my kids too. Dont have to tie him or pen him up, he just stays right here. Best farm dog here so far.
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firesweepranch
Well-known member
Have you thought about a Corgi? We have had a red heeler and would never own another (tire chaser, heel biter, pain), had/have three Auzzies, and two were great! We have had a Corgi for about 5 months now and LOVE her. She goes out with us to gather the cattle, does not get hyped like the Auzzie does, and works quietly around cattle. She follows me everywhere, and is a lot smaller than the Auzzies. Now, she is young yet, but the Auzzie we had was trained to go get the cattle for us and the Corgi does not do that yet, but we have not trained her much yet (she is just 7 months old).
Also, a lot goes to say for the individual parents and breeder. The horrible Auzzie we have was a skittish pup when we got him, but my daughter thought she could work that out of him. He has never changed, and if we had the heart we would get rid of him but no one seems to want to give him up.
Anyway, we just love the personality, size, and work ethics of the Corgi so far. Don't know if they are considered a herd dog, but ours seems to fit that category!
Also, a lot goes to say for the individual parents and breeder. The horrible Auzzie we have was a skittish pup when we got him, but my daughter thought she could work that out of him. He has never changed, and if we had the heart we would get rid of him but no one seems to want to give him up.
Anyway, we just love the personality, size, and work ethics of the Corgi so far. Don't know if they are considered a herd dog, but ours seems to fit that category!
showsteerdlux
Well-known member
My buddy raises and trains Border Collies. I used to be a heeler person until I saw his dogs. The next dog I get will be from him. They can herd, bite, heel........ I currently have a Texas Heeler that I'm messing with, she is coming on slowly, hopefully she'll be a good one.
Aussie
Well-known member
I have some great Kelpies and BC btw we don't have Aussie Shepards over here. Here is a link on SP were various dogs were discussed.http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php?topic=20464.0
Love to dog shop! I have had an aussie, heeler, border collie and corgi. I currently have a BC and a fierce Corgi. I will say each has their merits and I loved them all. Here is what I learned about each one.
Aussie-good farm dog. Ours was loving and on the bigger side. Didn't have an ounce of work in him and could be a bit snippy around people he didn't know. Family has had the most biters from this category. Likes to have a job and are not good left alone too long
Heeler-loved the "I belong to him" mentality. Very loyal and probably the most aggressive of all we had. She was a biter and would not only bite the heels but if the cows or horses had their nose too close to the fence, she would take a bite there too. She was the toughest of all of them. Had most of her teeth gone and her leg broke 3 times but she LOVED us but not kids at all or people she didn't think belonged around the farm. Strangers could be found in a corner if they ventured into the barn unattended. Ours hung out in the barn and was always on patrol. She would help load cattle and had a hard time with the concept of quit.
Border collie had 3 and they were all different. Freckles was small. The runt. Sweet and would help bring cattle in but not really aggressive. She went deaf but was never a problem as you could use your hands to direct her and she would look for signals. Second one was from same breeder-George Conboy who helped start the working dog association in the US- that started her life as a town dog. Bigger and would try to work but didn't have foundation. Would help herd and was a good barn and house dog. Our one now is the smartest frickin dog I have ever been around. She is very mellow. Goes out to feed in the AM and PM. In between she is a sleeper until she hears "load up" and she is fast and will help herd and is aggressive. She is almost 'obsessive/compulsive' about her ball and will play with you until you tell her 'that will do". She is also from a well known national breeder who was good friends with George Conboy. Border collies are extremely smart and can be a nuisance is not brought up well. You have one and I am sure you know what I mean. Will always have one on our place. I love their trainabilty.
Corgi-have had 2. Glad someone brought them up. First one was a couch potato. Loved being with us and was the perfect kid dog. He kept better track of my son than I did. He didn't work but he was like his parents and I wanted him more for a house dog. Smart but can be stubborn and they will train their people to get them what they want. Extremely loyal and guardians. HUGE bark that makes people wary. We have a 1 year old tri-colored right now who is the fiercest, toughest corgi by day and the sweetest cuddlebug by night. He is aggressive and will herd the buffalo, yes buffalo, every morning around their lot. The coolest thing is their low size means they are kicked over. He is a heeler and smart. LOVE HIM! Full siblings are being born right now at the breeders in MI. I know of breeders in TX as well. Worst part is they have a pretty thick undercoat and shed and need to be brushed. I use a cattle comb. I will say corgi puppies are some of the cutest darn puppies on the planet and once one works it's magic on you, you are screwed.
I will have a kelpie some day as I have heard wonderful things from them. What ever you choose to do, I think so much has to do with how they are brought up and trained. People come to our farm and are amazed with how well our dogs mind and work. Takes a tremendous amount of time to have the partner you want. I will be the crazy lady some day with more corgis then the Queen!
Aussie-good farm dog. Ours was loving and on the bigger side. Didn't have an ounce of work in him and could be a bit snippy around people he didn't know. Family has had the most biters from this category. Likes to have a job and are not good left alone too long
Heeler-loved the "I belong to him" mentality. Very loyal and probably the most aggressive of all we had. She was a biter and would not only bite the heels but if the cows or horses had their nose too close to the fence, she would take a bite there too. She was the toughest of all of them. Had most of her teeth gone and her leg broke 3 times but she LOVED us but not kids at all or people she didn't think belonged around the farm. Strangers could be found in a corner if they ventured into the barn unattended. Ours hung out in the barn and was always on patrol. She would help load cattle and had a hard time with the concept of quit.
Border collie had 3 and they were all different. Freckles was small. The runt. Sweet and would help bring cattle in but not really aggressive. She went deaf but was never a problem as you could use your hands to direct her and she would look for signals. Second one was from same breeder-George Conboy who helped start the working dog association in the US- that started her life as a town dog. Bigger and would try to work but didn't have foundation. Would help herd and was a good barn and house dog. Our one now is the smartest frickin dog I have ever been around. She is very mellow. Goes out to feed in the AM and PM. In between she is a sleeper until she hears "load up" and she is fast and will help herd and is aggressive. She is almost 'obsessive/compulsive' about her ball and will play with you until you tell her 'that will do". She is also from a well known national breeder who was good friends with George Conboy. Border collies are extremely smart and can be a nuisance is not brought up well. You have one and I am sure you know what I mean. Will always have one on our place. I love their trainabilty.
Corgi-have had 2. Glad someone brought them up. First one was a couch potato. Loved being with us and was the perfect kid dog. He kept better track of my son than I did. He didn't work but he was like his parents and I wanted him more for a house dog. Smart but can be stubborn and they will train their people to get them what they want. Extremely loyal and guardians. HUGE bark that makes people wary. We have a 1 year old tri-colored right now who is the fiercest, toughest corgi by day and the sweetest cuddlebug by night. He is aggressive and will herd the buffalo, yes buffalo, every morning around their lot. The coolest thing is their low size means they are kicked over. He is a heeler and smart. LOVE HIM! Full siblings are being born right now at the breeders in MI. I know of breeders in TX as well. Worst part is they have a pretty thick undercoat and shed and need to be brushed. I use a cattle comb. I will say corgi puppies are some of the cutest darn puppies on the planet and once one works it's magic on you, you are screwed.
I will have a kelpie some day as I have heard wonderful things from them. What ever you choose to do, I think so much has to do with how they are brought up and trained. People come to our farm and are amazed with how well our dogs mind and work. Takes a tremendous amount of time to have the partner you want. I will be the crazy lady some day with more corgis then the Queen!
We've had border collies and they can either be so good you can't be without them or so bad that you wish you never had them. Their instinct is to gather so you have to remember that when training them.
Kelpies.. all the kelpies I've been around are like bad border collies on steriods. They are also a gathering breed.
Australian Sheperds - That would be my preference anymore.. They are a closer working driving breed.
Corgis.. Wouldn't have one on the place.. J/K. Another breed that would prefer to drive rather than gather. We don't use ours for herding for several reasons. They don't do well in deep mud, they are slower, and I sure don't want one hurt from getting kicked. I would venture to guess that a lot of the herding instinct has been bred out of them. I have bred a couple that have earned herding titles but honestly that's glorified hype.
Heelers.. another driving style dog. Describe in one word.. STUBBORN. But they are pretty good dogs.
Now for the dog you really really really need.. and I'll meet you in St Joe with her.. is a smooth collie. It's like Lassie with no care hair.
Kelpies.. all the kelpies I've been around are like bad border collies on steriods. They are also a gathering breed.
Australian Sheperds - That would be my preference anymore.. They are a closer working driving breed.
Corgis.. Wouldn't have one on the place.. J/K. Another breed that would prefer to drive rather than gather. We don't use ours for herding for several reasons. They don't do well in deep mud, they are slower, and I sure don't want one hurt from getting kicked. I would venture to guess that a lot of the herding instinct has been bred out of them. I have bred a couple that have earned herding titles but honestly that's glorified hype.
Heelers.. another driving style dog. Describe in one word.. STUBBORN. But they are pretty good dogs.
Now for the dog you really really really need.. and I'll meet you in St Joe with her.. is a smooth collie. It's like Lassie with no care hair.
kyfarmgirl10
Well-known member
If you put some research effort into buying an Aussie you'll end up with the best working dog you could imagine. Theirs 2 seperate lines of Aussies the working line and show line we have a female thats a cross between those lines and couldnt ask for a better dog she's got some good herding instinct and won't let a single animal on the place be fighting she'll jump right between two 1200 lb bulls when there fighting and not think twice, and she's a great companion and has obediance titles and working towards agility titles and never raised a hair at any body but a misbehaving cow.
Good point.. show lines vs working or other lines.. Show Aussies are going to be bigger, bigger boned, bigger coated, etc. Show corgis are going to be lower, bigger boned, and heavier coated. Show Border collies are goign to look like a show Aussie with a tail.
trevorgreycattleco
Well-known member
firesweepranch said:
LOL We have a corgi too. He is always the one biting tires and trying to fight all the other dogs. He could care less about the cows. He is a official couch potato. He is a great watch dog tho and is good with the kids. He eats ANYTHING and would eat himself to death if you let him lol. I love their spunk as well. Fearless.
I need to study up on Kelpies. Never heard of em till recently.
Again knowledge of the breeder and the parents are huge for me. Working with your dog everyday will make a great dog no matter the breed. We have a Rottweiler that is the sweetest dog you ever been around. Professional sleeper. Looks like a beast
Funny how many different opinions are out there.
Doc
Well-known member
In my opinion the only way to go is with an Aussie. I've had heelers & down here in the south we have saying on them , that the only way you can train them is with a tobacco stick. They have some grit , but they sure are hard headed. They are also too rough on horses & calves.
I've had Aussies since 1985 & I think you can't beat them. But just like with lines of cattle within a breed , you have to research which lines are going to do the job you want. One of the best Aussies I bought was a Twin Oaks bred dog that I went to CA & bought from Sherry Baker in Galt,CA . In the day she would hire herself & 2 dogs out the area ranchers to gather there cattle in out of the mountains. For the older Shorty breeders that included the old Time Share Breeders service. TwinOaks has been raising Aussie's since 1956 .
I've had Aussies since 1985 & I think you can't beat them. But just like with lines of cattle within a breed , you have to research which lines are going to do the job you want. One of the best Aussies I bought was a Twin Oaks bred dog that I went to CA & bought from Sherry Baker in Galt,CA . In the day she would hire herself & 2 dogs out the area ranchers to gather there cattle in out of the mountains. For the older Shorty breeders that included the old Time Share Breeders service. TwinOaks has been raising Aussie's since 1956 .
kobo_ranch
Well-known member
About a year ago we decided to get a dog and I couldn't make up my mind to get a BC or a Corgi? Saw a corgi at a ranch listing I toured and really liked it. Then a friend of ours had the last of the litter on there BC working dogs and he was the cutest thing... So... decided to get both. As a little girl my Dad had a BC named Tippy she could gather all the sheep on the ranch without him leaving the front porch. She was the smartest dog I'd ever seen. Never replaced her though. Not sure if ACE will ever be as smart as her but so far really tries! I really want him to help gather our dorpers but really think he wants to be a cow dog. Loves getting after those cows. Our sheep are pretty gentle and need to get him a bit more training not to get so aggressive with them (like he does with the cattle). Shorty, (our Corgi... loves the cows too.. worry about him but getting kicked but so far hasn't. Although much smaller than Ace don't think he knows it. Once they get after em Shorty is more stubborn and doesn't 'come back' quite as easily.
They go with us everywhere on the ranch during chores... but know when its time to hit the pen. VERY SMART both of 'em. They are tons of company and love time with them.
They're both young... just under a year old and getting better everyday. ... both of these dogs love all our friends but do bark at strangers but not a bit mean if we seem comfortable.
Good luck... here's my sweeties!
They go with us everywhere on the ranch during chores... but know when its time to hit the pen. VERY SMART both of 'em. They are tons of company and love time with them.
They're both young... just under a year old and getting better everyday. ... both of these dogs love all our friends but do bark at strangers but not a bit mean if we seem comfortable.
Good luck... here's my sweeties!
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I have corgis already...they do fine on small jobs but they just don't have enough leg under them to help gather. You all have me scared to death now to get a working pup lol. I don't think I need alot of bite in the dog..I guess I need a moderate stock dog lol
kfacres
Well-known member
justme said:
sounds like you need a BC.. not alot of bite, and the gather... Our dog I really have to try and try to get her to chew into one.. but she will.. She's 2 or 3.. and really needs to go back to school for a refresher.. Teacher lady said ours is one of the worst ones she's ever dealt with in terms of needing a shot of rittalin... (sp). Somedays, I just have to send her for a lap or 2 around the pasture to get her to work right...
I have an ausi and wouldn't trade him for any other dog. Our cattle are like yours and he is very calm and gentel with them until he needs to be "strict". He has been great with the kids, and unlike some of the others have posted very laid back!! He loves to go to the cows and would be happy to go all day every day but if I'm in the house he is by the door or in the truck. He has saved me and my daughters rearends quite a few times. Brian
garybob
Well-known member
I guess nobody is recommending a Catahoula Leopard? Lol. JK. But seriously, what about an English Shepherd? Does anyone know where to find any?
GB
GB
Shady Lane
Well-known member
Ok, this might sound nuts.....
But what about Jack Russels?
I have never seen one work, and can't frankly imagine them working but somebody told me in denver last year that they used Jack Russels to work their cattle?
But what about Jack Russels?
I have never seen one work, and can't frankly imagine them working but somebody told me in denver last year that they used Jack Russels to work their cattle?
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