Would you...

[DL]

spend $1200 for a single embryo from a PHA carrier bull?

 

[NHR]

no!

(dog) Just run away!

 

[aj]

If I did it , it would have to be with disposable income. There would be a 50% chance that the individual would be clean unless the dam was a carrier.

 

[Gypsy]

no!

(dog) Just run away!

NHR - I love your "fine print" - too funny!

I wouldn't give you a dime for a possible carrier embryo, let alone $1200 bucks.  Ick.

 

[DL]

no!

(dog) Just run away!

NHR - I love your "fine print" - too funny!

I wouldn't give you a dime for a possible carrier embryo, let alone $1200 bucks.  Ick.

Love the running dog

OK how about $1000 ;D ;D ;D

 

[justintime]

DL, it sounds like you are trying to sell an embryo from a PHA carrier bull by Mexican auction. You started at $1200 for the embryos, and no one bit, so now you have dropped the bid to $1000.  LOL  I think you may be here for awhile... at least with this crowd. I wouldn't give you a wooden nickel for it myself. I have no doubt that there are lots of people who would pay $1200 for this embryo. If Barnum was alive today he would have a real field day!!  ( he was the guy who said " there's a sucker born every day)

 

[Gypsy]

So there ya go DL, not a dime from me or a wooden nickle from justintime.  Anyone else?  I imagine that much more than $1200 has been paid for carrier embryos.  More than once. :

 

[afhm]

If I had the extra money and it was a mating I really wanted or thought I needed then yes. 

 

[itk]

JIT get out your sucker stamp and put that right across my forehead because I would pay $1200 (or maybe even more) for embryo's out of some carrier sires it just depends on the mating. Think of all the great 57 daughters, if there were full sib embryos for sale at that price I would consider myself lucky and would by them all day long. I think some gentics are worth the hassle of breeding the gentic defects out in exchange for the future benefits they could have on my program. DV, Kool, and bulls like that no way, but if I found Improver 57 embryos out of the right cow at that price sign me up. ))

 

[shorthorns r us]

is improver 57 phac?

 

[red]

I'm sure there has been more than $1200 paid for such a mating.
Personaly, I wouldn't but I'm sure there is a market.
Big question is Would you sell a flush from a PHAC /THC  bull for $1200?
My answer- you bet! If person knew what they were buying & wanted it, I'd sell it to them. Got to buy feed for those cows.

Red

 

[DL]

I wouldn't give you a peso for this egg!  IMNSHO (in my not so humble opinion ;D) this is a human created issue  - we are always chasing "the great one" - so to me it wouldn't matter what the mating - 50 % chance of having a carrier - a disposable bovine - "great marketing" has created this fiasco

Red - good question - I wouldn't flush one of my cows to a carrier bull - I don't want my genetics associated with propagating PHA..

we need rain,

 

[red]

Well now w/ the test I probalby won't either. But I have about 1/2 dozen Gold Club x wild Rose embryos that were done before I had even heard the word PHA. I guess if someone wanted them, I'd sell them.

Red

 

[NHR]

I would not even consider paying a penny for them. Now if you wanted to give them to me for free then i would take them and throw them in the trash!
(clapping)

 

[knabe]

here is a scenario i would pay for a flush, not an individual embryo, from a carrier and since the flush would be from a carrier no one is really interested in from the "great" one perspective.  if the cow was a homozygous carrier of the tenderness and carcass genes and i could flush to a bull that was the same, particularly if that bull was a fullblood, i would consider it.  i am at the point of getting a couple of bulls tested for just such a scenario.  as i indicated before, if i had the chance to do it all over again, i would have gone the fullblood route as well, as they are closer to what i am really after, a somewhat larger cow than the lowliners and kit pharo types with the potential to marble on grass, which may be totally fiction for the old fullblood maine's, but i at least want to try.  i am not after a great one, and have the patience to use the tests now that they are available, rather than just avoiding the bloodlines altogether.  the most glaring deficiency i see in some of the full bloods i am looking at is heartgirth and depth, sogginess.  perhaps there is just smaller incremental progress available with the rest of the genetic base in those individuals leaving out the defect issue.

by the way, i think there a similar amount of culled cattle from trying to get the great one as there is from carrier groups.  to me a freak, or great one can't be a hybrid vigor freakazoid, but must pass on his genetics and this takes more patience and culls than trying to get a great one and sell semen for a year to those on the bleeding edge.  it probalby takes at least 7-10 years of careful record keeping as well as a little less focus on hair or postiness.

 

[NHR]

Let me state my stance.

I wont use a carrier bull and I wont knowingly keep a carrier cow. This applies to TH and PHA. This is why I wont buy semen on Radioactive or Sonny-n-Clear because they are PHAC. There are good bulls out there that are TH and PHA free (Salute, Final Solution, CF Phoenix, SS Kaboom, JM Vortec, NPS Durango, and etc.).

This is my policy because I have seen the direct result of the TH train wreck. It is not a pretty sight!

 

[OH Breeder]

I think I would have to strongly evaulate what the mating would add to my program. I have been lucky to test free on my potential carriers thus far. If I could purchase a carrier female and manage her it might be easier. I have purchased eggs with carrier bulls and clean cows shooting for terminal mating- steers. I think that you would have to evaluate it case by case. I am also a bargain shopper. I never buy retail. So, if I could get them at a discounted rate and manage them effectively then Sure.

 

[DLD]

Okay, I know you're all waiting to hear this from me...

First of all DL, you said from a carrier bull, so I'm assuming you mean it's from free cow (no chance of an actual PHA affected calf, but a 50% chance of a carrier). In that case, for a proven show steer mating, yes I would. Someone better at math than I am may come along and correct me, but I'm thinking that gives me a 50% chance of a bull calf that'll get cut anyway, 25% chance of a free heifer, and 25% chance of a carrier heifer. If a bull or heifer was my goal, no, I wouldn't be at all interested, but if I know the embryo's from a mating that has produced high dollar, winning steers, I guess I could stand that 25% risk of ending up with a carrier heifer (who can still be used if her quality warrants it) vs. the 75% chance that I'll get a calf that'll either be clean, or it won't matter if it is, that could possibly multiply that $1000 -$1200 several times over.

Let the flogging commence.

Oh and, DL - I'm trying to wish this rain your way.

 

[the angus111]

as much as i like et,it would be hard for me to buy 1 embryo for that amt,unless they are garunteeing(cant spell) one pregnancy.you know the clubby deal is a gamble no matter how or what you do.it is what you as  producer wants from the program.rusty

 

[afhm]

Will a test ever be developed to test embryos and semen for TH and PHA before implanting or ai ing, or is that still Star Wars?  Look at this embryos question like this, what would a PHAF full brother to Irish Whiskey for example be worth?  It is definately worth a $1200 embryo to try and get it to me.  IF it comes out a bull and C then you have a steer, a female and C you have a  good reciept, and a clean brother or sister then laugh all the way to the bank.