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UnbridledStallion
Guest
Anyone have photos comparing cattle fed either Zilmax or Optaflexx to cattle receiving none?
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UnbridledStallion
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Well does anyone have a picture showing cattle before and after reciving optaflexx? You could take one your self cowboylaw (I can't because I don't have the land to raise cattle). I just want to see the added muscle. Why anyone can't take a simple photo is beyond me, because feed that has optaflexx, isn't even a controlled substance, you can just go to a feed store and buy it.cowboylaw said:
Also though I may be wrong Zilmax, was voluntarily withdrawn by its maker. The FDA did not recall it, nor did the manufacturer voluntarily recall it. I think voluntarily withdrawn means that they stop selling it. A recall is when they tell people currently using it to stop, and return it or throw it out.
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UnbridledStallion
Guest
That the cattleman can raise, market, bred and sell cattle, yet cannot press a button on a camera?
I don't know what your fishing for, but the rancher marketing, breeding and selling cattle isn't feeding zilmax. If your looking for a picture showing a calf that looks like a Holstein before and a Belgium Blue after, that is not how it works.
I think if someone did have pictures for you, you would be disappointed in what you saw.
I think if someone did have pictures for you, you would be disappointed in what you saw.
Mainevent
Well-known member
Yeah I agree with vc and referring to the last time you asked for pictures Ryan's advice. 95% of what you'd see is the genetics of the animal being maximized to it's potential. So whatever it is your fishing for you need to stop because you won't see the drastic change you're looking for.
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UnbridledStallion
Guest
I understand now about the photos. Thanks to everyone that replied.
CAB
Well-known member
GoWyo said:
Ditto!!
We have fed Optaflexx to our show steers. I have never taken any before and after pictures, but I do have after photos.
It is hard to see a "day and night" difference because there are so many other factors. We fed it for 30 days before State Fair. During that 30 day period, the steers grow about 75% of their final hair coat. They put on their final fat cover. They get a little bit stiff in their movement (with or without Optaflexx) because they are heavy, fat, and spoiled rotten. Then they shrink back between 50 and 80 pounds due to hailing them to a fair, going off feed, having to drink chlorinated water at the fair, heat exposure, etc..
Even if you take before and after photos of them on the wash rack there wouldn't be a day and night difference.
If you go to the Elanco website, you can get a lot of information. You are only looking at a 22# live weight increase. On a 1400# steer, that is only 1.5%. That is hardly the type of increase that would be visibly evident. Rib eye area...again, .5 sq in increase. Who can look at a steer and know if it has a 13.5' or 14" rib eye? Not me.
Read this:
http://www.elanco.us/pdfs/usbbuopt00028_beta-agonists-at-a-glance-and-value-worksheet.pdf
If you truly want to see the results first hand, my recommendation would be to go out to a feedlot that uses it. You would be able to see a pen of steers right before they go onto the product, a pen that is 10 days in, 20 days in, etc..
As has been said before, it won't be much to see. A lot like watching paint dry I would say!
It is hard to see a "day and night" difference because there are so many other factors. We fed it for 30 days before State Fair. During that 30 day period, the steers grow about 75% of their final hair coat. They put on their final fat cover. They get a little bit stiff in their movement (with or without Optaflexx) because they are heavy, fat, and spoiled rotten. Then they shrink back between 50 and 80 pounds due to hailing them to a fair, going off feed, having to drink chlorinated water at the fair, heat exposure, etc..
Even if you take before and after photos of them on the wash rack there wouldn't be a day and night difference.
If you go to the Elanco website, you can get a lot of information. You are only looking at a 22# live weight increase. On a 1400# steer, that is only 1.5%. That is hardly the type of increase that would be visibly evident. Rib eye area...again, .5 sq in increase. Who can look at a steer and know if it has a 13.5' or 14" rib eye? Not me.
Read this:
http://www.elanco.us/pdfs/usbbuopt00028_beta-agonists-at-a-glance-and-value-worksheet.pdf
If you truly want to see the results first hand, my recommendation would be to go out to a feedlot that uses it. You would be able to see a pen of steers right before they go onto the product, a pen that is 10 days in, 20 days in, etc..
As has been said before, it won't be much to see. A lot like watching paint dry I would say!
What I am about to post is based on my own observations and opinions.
First of all Zilmax was NOT taken off the market by the FDA. Merck pulled it off the market after a couple of the larger packing plants said they wouldn't accept Zilmax feed cattle because of soundness problems.
When both Optiflex and Zilmax first came out I was working at a Co. State Univ. research feedlot and we did several trials on both. There is a noticeable difference between cattle fed these beta agonists verses cattle not fed any. It is more noticeable in Zilmax fed cattle. Both ad muscle but will decrease fat. However the difference isn't like comparing the 98 pound weakling to a 320 pound nose tackle. Both will effect the quality grade however.
I now work in a JBS feedlot that did feed Zilmax until it was taken off the market. I didn't notice any more soundness problems with cattle fed Zilmax than without it if you feed it according to the label. I see unsoundness and structure problems on cattle we get in to feed before they ever are put on Zilmax or Optiflex and they will get worse the more weight you put on them whether they are fed a beta agonist or not. ( and no they aren't clubby bred )
Just my observations.
First of all Zilmax was NOT taken off the market by the FDA. Merck pulled it off the market after a couple of the larger packing plants said they wouldn't accept Zilmax feed cattle because of soundness problems.
When both Optiflex and Zilmax first came out I was working at a Co. State Univ. research feedlot and we did several trials on both. There is a noticeable difference between cattle fed these beta agonists verses cattle not fed any. It is more noticeable in Zilmax fed cattle. Both ad muscle but will decrease fat. However the difference isn't like comparing the 98 pound weakling to a 320 pound nose tackle. Both will effect the quality grade however.
I now work in a JBS feedlot that did feed Zilmax until it was taken off the market. I didn't notice any more soundness problems with cattle fed Zilmax than without it if you feed it according to the label. I see unsoundness and structure problems on cattle we get in to feed before they ever are put on Zilmax or Optiflex and they will get worse the more weight you put on them whether they are fed a beta agonist or not. ( and no they aren't clubby bred )
Just my observations.
rackranch
Well-known member
I'm cornfused!!!
MCC said:
[that did feed zilmax until it was taken off the market] by Merck.rackranch said:
http://beefmagazine.com/business/merck-temporarily-suspends-sales-zilmax
The FDA did not in any way shape or form put any type of restriction on the use of Zilmax. In fact, they still have not put any restrictions on the supplement.
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UnbridledStallion
Guest
I'm not a troll. The sole purpose of me registering on this site was for me to visually see how implants and/or beta-agonists effect muscle and/or male secondary sex characteristics and maybe see if it can do the same to horses (I'm sure I'm not the only one to have thought of implanting a horse or feeding it optaflexx).CAB said:
Sorry to everyone if I didn't make my first post clear.
Yes it was the manufacturer that pulled it off the market voluntarily.
Do NOT FEED ZILMAX OR OPTIFLEX TO HORSES!!!!!
There are other ways to increase muscle in horses which I won't discuss here.
Yes it was the manufacturer that pulled it off the market voluntarily.
UnbridledStallion said:
Do NOT FEED ZILMAX OR OPTIFLEX TO HORSES!!!!!
There are other ways to increase muscle in horses which I won't discuss here.
UnbridledStallion said:
I guess I don't really know what a troll is.
Now, implants are a completely different story! You can see a steer turn into a cresty necked belligerent knot head in a hurry if you implant.
I am positive that there are supplements that you can find for a horse. The problem you are having is that you already know about them. You are looking for something "outside the box" and maybe a little in the grey area. Personally, I commend you for that. Fresh and different thinking is a great thing. Nobody on here is going to tell you anything that is on the line or over the line, even if they have done or still do it themselves. About the only thing anyone on here will 'fess up to is the perhaps improper use of tranquilizers.
I now understand where you are going with the whole thing. I just don't think anyone on here will help you.
Good luck.
OH Breeder
Well-known member
UnbridledStallion said:
I guess I am confused. What's wrong with what's already approved for consumption now?
OH Breeder said:UnbridledStallion said:
I guess I am confused. What's wrong with what's already approved for consumption now?
The author "might" be looking for something that can be used on a horse......that may not actually BE approved or produced for use on a horse. Sort of like when we feed Fluid Flex to show steers. It wasn't originally manufactured for use in cattle, but it works.
I believe the author started a similar post and received some feedback on horse supplements.
OH Breeder
Well-known member
I did a quick google and came up with literally hundreds of post from forums to articles on muscle growth. I would start there.
http://www.horsemanmagazine.com/2009/08/building-muscle-in-horses/
http://www.horsemanmagazine.com/2009/08/building-muscle-in-horses/
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