Creative Buying Options

Hey Folks,
Some of you might remember a thread I started a while back about some SimAngus females I was looking at. I talked with the guy this morning and he's looking at moving around 80 head of Simm based cows and some SimAngus females. The SimAngus females are OCC Emblazon daughters, and some of the cows trace back to Meyer. The cows are all bred to Angus bulls right now and will calve in March. All I have right now is the purebred Gelbvieh herd, so I'm looking for 5 cows to play with for a clubby herd. These cows are the real deal, so needless to say, I want to make their home at my place.

Here's the part where I need some help. I'm trying to come up with creative solutions to finance this. With the financial situation being what it is, the banks up here have gotten really tight on lending for ag loans. I've been trying to come up with some kind of solution that would work for both of us in the long run. So far here's what I came up with:
- Seller can have the calves in fall of 2009 for reduced price on cows
- Seller can retain 1/2 ownership in 2009 calves and 2010 calves for free cows
- Pay full price for cows, mortgage my kidneys

Anyone have solutions that have worked for you in the past, or any ideas?

I hate to tell you, your kidneys might be the best option at this point (lol) If you can get the seller to do the option of half interest for 2 years calves for free cows, you would be good to go, however they may want a say in what she is bred to, which may detract from your clubby goal.

ShowmanQ said:

I hate to tell you, your kidneys might be the best option at this point (lol) If you can get the seller to do the option of half interest for 2 years calves for free cows, you would be good to go, however they may want a say in what she is bred to, which may detract from your clubby goal.

Click to expand...

Hate to buy a 6 year old cow with the stipulation that they still get to call the breeding shots when she's 8. I do like that option the best. I'd basically be paying for the feed, boarding, labor, and breeding of the cows, as well as the show prep for the 2nd year calves.

why not work it so he keeps the 5 cows, he also gets rid of 75, you get the calves.

some of this is based on your expert selection criteria from the 80 he has.

split the profits on the calves.  convince him that those 5 will produce a bigger profit margin per head than the other 75.

knabe said:

why not work it so he keeps the 5 cows, he also gets rid of 75, you get the calves.

some of this is based on your expert selection criteria from the 80 he has.

split the profits on the calves.  convince him that those 5 will produce a bigger profit margin per head than the other 75.

Click to expand...

Knabe, can you elaborate a bit?

klintdog said:

knabe said:

why not work it so he keeps the 5 cows, he also gets rid of 75, you get the calves.

some of this is based on your expert selection criteria from the 80 he has.

split the profits on the calves.  convince him that those 5 will produce a bigger profit margin per head than the other 75.

Click to expand...

Knabe, can you elaborate a bit?

Click to expand...

i mean, don't buy the cows, but buy the rights to use them, validate your money making criteria, who to breed to, where to sell offspring for more margin than he is generating now.  it's probably the case that these are good "commercial" cows and he tried to create a better product using his resources, is a little overstocked, needs flow, something.

trade some of your time breaking/fitting calves.

break it down in a spreadsheet, make a "contract".

it seems the biggest hurdle is capital transfer, so don't transfer the capital.  transfer you.

Actually they're coming from a 40 year purebred herd that started with Simmental and then added in Saler, Angus, and a few others. They are up to 400+ cows right now. All the cows are registered with their respective breeds. The owner is getting up in years and needs to move cows because of a labor situation and because we haven't had rain up here since June of 2007. Basically it's an issue of not enough feed more than anything else.

ShowmanQ said:

I hate to tell you, your kidneys might be the best option at this point (lol) If you can get the seller to do the option of half interest for 2 years calves for free cows, you would be good to go, however they may want a say in what she is bred to, which may detract from your clubby goal.

Click to expand...

How far away from you is the seller?  It can be near impossible, from both sides, to make sure these kinds of strings work well.  What if the calves die or the cow(s) don't carry to term?  Lots of possible questions.  Do you think he'd go for just one kidney?

maybe a half a kidney and/or  silent/ short term patrner, maybe even a 90 day bank note ( not always possible , but maybe good for  down payment...even for halvies )...jbarl   good liuck

We're about 40 miles apart. The guy selling is my bosses father in law, so who knows how that could complicate. A kidney seems like a lot for 5 cows, is there another less essential body part I could mortgage?

A spleen could work. Or if you have ever liked the idea of taking insulin maybe a Panchreas (lol)

ShowmanQ said:

A spleen could work. Or if you have ever liked the idea of taking insulin maybe a Panchreas (lol)

Click to expand...

i'll chip in an appendix....i havent used any of my health insurance this year  ( other than deductables/co pays ) seems like i ought to use it for something..  ....  jbarl

this red pen clarity brings back 3rd grade. ;D

Excellent point AAOK.

AAOK is right. (For once )

What happens if one of the cows die on you! If it's your fault or an accident? You'll pay cash then I bet.

SD said:

AAOK is right. (For once )

What happens if one of the cows die on you! If it's your fault or an accident? You'll pay cash then I bet.

Click to expand...

SD What do you mean (For Once)  Ask my wife, I'm always right

of

Sounds like a chance for a potential scam,bad feelings, and potential disaster to me. jmo

What is the total purchase price? If you are assuming the cows and the cost associated with them, work out a payment plan. Have you approached the guy about that option? Obviously when the calves come off you can sell the calves and make a balloon payment per say.
6000 for the 5 cows? put a deposit and work out payments. If you do not have the income to do this, I would reconsider the purchase.

Now, you can donate easily with a good return

Plasma and semen for 50- 100 bucks a pop
Maybe an eye, you can donate skin if you donate mind having a large scar and the risk of infection.
Kidney's are valuable. Liver's and Lungs are big ticket items. You have two lungs, what is one. The liver might be a problem.
Contact your local university and volunteer for trials for them to experiment on. Make a little money being a human Guinea pig. LOL ;D