6+8=14 Right or Wrong
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fluffer
Well-known member
Are you sure Knabe? I am pretty sure that any item that has been taxed on time (New Car) will not be taxed when sold a second time. This according to John Linder and Neal Boortz who wrote the Fair Tax and Fair Tax the Truth.knabe said:
I like your new avator- can you explain it?
Fluffer
Many of my business customers own rental properties. The vast majority of their tenants are on public assistance of one sort or another, most on government assisted rent. Nearly all are single mothers with children. These people pay very little of their own way. However, according to the landlords, are all very fertile. They have figured out that if they have 2 children,thay can get a bigger apartment and more welfare if they have another. If they have 3 children, they can get more money and a bigger apartment if they have another child. As my business customers say, it is easy to understand why there are always plenty of 'tomcats' around. Try getting reelected to your gravy train position as a member of congress if you suggested limiting the number of children a ward of the state can have. I don't know all the particulars of the lady that had a nice sized litter of children. I assume that we (taxpayers) will pay a good share of the bill. Unfortunately, we can't legislate stupidity.
knabe
Well-known member
fluffer said:
these taxes are recouped as use tax. still taxed. i just want to tax at the point of purchase.
Jill
Well-known member
First off, I agree with Knabe on the sales tax thing, I don't think it gets more fair than that.
Take it from some that has been through the fertility thing, it is NOT cheap and everything is explained in full detail, what you implant is what you may end up with, that is the facts. There is no reason anyone with that many children should be considered for more (just my opinion) and your right, her and the doctor that gave her the treatment should be charged for the cost of those babies, they will be multi millions before they are out of the hospital and I would imagine it will all be at taxpayer expense, shame on them!
Take it from some that has been through the fertility thing, it is NOT cheap and everything is explained in full detail, what you implant is what you may end up with, that is the facts. There is no reason anyone with that many children should be considered for more (just my opinion) and your right, her and the doctor that gave her the treatment should be charged for the cost of those babies, they will be multi millions before they are out of the hospital and I would imagine it will all be at taxpayer expense, shame on them!
cowz
Well-known member
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- Jan 10, 2007
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BINGO! She may have scraped enough up to pay for the fertility treatments, but after that there is no question she will be on the public dole. Taniff, Food Stamps, Aid to Dependent Children, CHP+, anything and everything.
If she was an old lady with 15 cats, she would have them taken away because she is a "COLLECTOR". I see no difference. Sad family life for 14 kids and no father influence.
If she was an old lady with 15 cats, she would have them taken away because she is a "COLLECTOR". I see no difference. Sad family life for 14 kids and no father influence.
ROAD WARRIOR
Well-known member
If you can't feed 'em - don't breed 'em! RW
Doc
Well-known member
ROAD WARRIOR said:
Good One ,RW!! (clapping)
Show Heifer
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I kinda like the mandatory adoption rule for those that "just can't say no"...... if you can not afford your child or children, then off to another home.
More money doesn't neccesarily make a better home, but its a good start.
We are so quick to condemn this one (and I am NOT disagreeing with that!!)..... what about teens having babies when still in school? A local district has 14 girls that are pregnant and that is a school district with roughly 1000 students.
Is this why all the Grandparents are raising kids?? I am positive a 15 year old can not afford her child either......... just a thought.
More money doesn't neccesarily make a better home, but its a good start.
We are so quick to condemn this one (and I am NOT disagreeing with that!!)..... what about teens having babies when still in school? A local district has 14 girls that are pregnant and that is a school district with roughly 1000 students.
Is this why all the Grandparents are raising kids?? I am positive a 15 year old can not afford her child either......... just a thought.
justintime
Well-known member
I guess the big question with me, in this story, is why she was even considered for fertilty treatments when she had 6 previous children. To me 6 kids should suggest that she is fairly fertile. I also think the Doctor who allowed this, and then implanted at least 8 embryos ( maybe more than 8) should be called up on the carpet on this one. I understand that we do not know all the facts, but the ones we have seen indicate to me that some people need to be held accountable here. The story seems to suggest that she has six previous children, from several different men. I would think any Doctor with any scruples would have either sent her packing or sent her for counselling before he put her on fertility drugs and implanted all the embryos in her. Did he not realize that there was a chance for multiple pregnancies? He should probably have his licence revoked for this casual act on society as a whole.
dori36
Well-known member
knabe said:
Nothing really new in suggesting a sales tax for everyone/everything . It's been suggested and shot down several times in various states and municipalities. Those who won't/don't want to pay for anything cry that it's "regressive". Hmmm, what's regressive about everyone contributing the same percentage? Same basic reaction to the flat tax - everyone pays, say, 10%. Those who have high incomes, pay more. Those who barely make any money pay barely anything. So simple. Guess that's the problem- so simple. Heaven forbid that all those govt employes who work in all the taxing entities be "laid off"! Sheesh!
Doc
Well-known member
Grandma: Octuplets mom obsessed with having kids
Published: 1/31/09, 8:25 PM EDT
By RAQUEL MARIA DILLON
LOS ANGELES (AP) - The woman who gave birth to octuplets this week conceived all 14 of her children through in vitro fertilization, is not married and has been obsessed with having children since she was a teenager, her mother said.
Angela Suleman told The Associated Press she was not supportive when her daughter, Nadya Suleman, decided to have more embryos implanted last year.
"It can't go on any longer," she said in a phone interview Friday. "She's got six children and no husband. I was brought up the traditional way. I firmly believe in marriage. But she didn't want to get married."
Nadya Suleman, 33, gave birth Monday in nearby Bellflower. She was expected to remain in the hospital for at least a few more days, and her newborns for at least a month.
A spokeswoman at Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center said the babies were were progressing daily, with all eight breathing unassisted and being tube-fed.
While her daughter recovers, Angela Suleman is taking care of the other six children, ages 2 through 7, at the family home in Whittier, about 15 miles east of downtown Los Angeles.
She said she warned her daughter that when she gets home from the hospital, "I'm going to be gone."
Angela Suleman said her daughter always had trouble conceiving and underwent in vitro fertilization treatments because her fallopian tubes are "plugged up."
There were frozen embryos left over after her previous pregnancies and her daughter didn't want them destroyed, so she decided to have more children.
Her mother and doctors have said the woman was told she had the option to abort some of the embryos and, later, the fetuses. She refused.
Her mother said she does not believe her daughter will have any more children.
"She doesn't have any more (frozen embryos), so it's over now," she said. "It has to be."
Nadya Suleman wanted to have children since she was a teenager, "but luckily she couldn't," her mother said.
"Instead of becoming a kindergarten teacher or something, she started having them, but not the normal way," he mother said.
Her daughter's obsession with children caused Angela Suleman considerable stress, so she sought help from a psychologist, who told her to order her daughter out of the house.
"Maybe she wouldn't have had so many kids then, but she is a grown woman," Angela Suleman said. "I feel responsible, and I didn't want to throw her out."
Little psychological research has been conducted on the reasons some mothers seem hooked on repeated pregnancies. David Diamond, a co-director for the Center for Reproductive Psychology in San Diego, said mothers can be drawn to repeat pregnancies for a number of reasons, with some finding the experience so satisfying they choose to become surrogates.
Diane G. Sanford, a psychologist and author specializing in women's reproductive mental health, said while she doesn't know much about Nadya Suleman's background, women that have obsessive-compulsive disorder can become fixated on different obsessions.
"Her obsession centers around children, having children and being a mother," she said. "To what degree are her esteem and identity based on being a mom, and why has this from a young age been such a preoccupation of hers?"
Yolanda Garcia, 49, of Whittier, said she helped care for Nadya Suleman's autistic son three years ago.
"From what I could tell back then, she was pretty happy with herself, saying she liked having kids and she wanted 12 kids in all," Garcia told the Long Beach Press-Telegram.
"She told me that all of her kids were through in vitro, and I said 'Gosh, how can you afford that and go to school at the same time?'" she added. "And she said it's because she got paid for it."
Garcia said she did not ask for details.
Nadya Suleman holds a 2006 degree in child and adolescent development from California State University, Fullerton, and as late as last spring she was studying for a master's degree in counseling, college spokeswoman Paula Selleck told the Press-Telegram.
Her fertility doctor has not been identified. Her mother told the Los Angeles Times all the children came from the same sperm donor but she declined to identify him.
Birth certificates reviewed by The Associated Press identify a David Solomon as the father for the four oldest children. Certificates for the other children were not immediately available.
Angela Suleman told reporters Friday that doctors implanted far fewer than eight embryos, but they multiplied. Experts said this could be possible since Nadya Suleman's system has likely been hyperstimulated for years with fertilization treatments and drugs.
The news that the octuplets' mother already had six children sparked an ethical debate. Some medical experts were disturbed to hear that she was offered fertility treatment, and troubled by the possibility that she was implanted with so many embryos.
"You should always shoot for one," said Dr. Marcelle Cedars, a professor and director of reproductive health at the University of California, San Francisco, Medical Center, who worried about the increased risk of potential health complications for the babies.
Others worried that she would be overwhelmed trying to raise so many children and would end up relying on public support.
"This woman could not comprehend the ramifications of having eight children of the same age at the same time," said Judith Horowitz, a Parkland, Fla.-based psychologist and author who works with couples on fertility issues. "After Pampers stops delivering the free diapers, then what?"
The eight babies - six boys and two girls - were delivered by cesarean section weighing between 1 pound, 8 ounces and 3 pounds, 4 ounces. Forty-six physicians and staff assisted in the deliveries.
Published: 1/31/09, 8:25 PM EDT
By RAQUEL MARIA DILLON
LOS ANGELES (AP) - The woman who gave birth to octuplets this week conceived all 14 of her children through in vitro fertilization, is not married and has been obsessed with having children since she was a teenager, her mother said.
Angela Suleman told The Associated Press she was not supportive when her daughter, Nadya Suleman, decided to have more embryos implanted last year.
"It can't go on any longer," she said in a phone interview Friday. "She's got six children and no husband. I was brought up the traditional way. I firmly believe in marriage. But she didn't want to get married."
Nadya Suleman, 33, gave birth Monday in nearby Bellflower. She was expected to remain in the hospital for at least a few more days, and her newborns for at least a month.
A spokeswoman at Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center said the babies were were progressing daily, with all eight breathing unassisted and being tube-fed.
While her daughter recovers, Angela Suleman is taking care of the other six children, ages 2 through 7, at the family home in Whittier, about 15 miles east of downtown Los Angeles.
She said she warned her daughter that when she gets home from the hospital, "I'm going to be gone."
Angela Suleman said her daughter always had trouble conceiving and underwent in vitro fertilization treatments because her fallopian tubes are "plugged up."
There were frozen embryos left over after her previous pregnancies and her daughter didn't want them destroyed, so she decided to have more children.
Her mother and doctors have said the woman was told she had the option to abort some of the embryos and, later, the fetuses. She refused.
Her mother said she does not believe her daughter will have any more children.
"She doesn't have any more (frozen embryos), so it's over now," she said. "It has to be."
Nadya Suleman wanted to have children since she was a teenager, "but luckily she couldn't," her mother said.
"Instead of becoming a kindergarten teacher or something, she started having them, but not the normal way," he mother said.
Her daughter's obsession with children caused Angela Suleman considerable stress, so she sought help from a psychologist, who told her to order her daughter out of the house.
"Maybe she wouldn't have had so many kids then, but she is a grown woman," Angela Suleman said. "I feel responsible, and I didn't want to throw her out."
Little psychological research has been conducted on the reasons some mothers seem hooked on repeated pregnancies. David Diamond, a co-director for the Center for Reproductive Psychology in San Diego, said mothers can be drawn to repeat pregnancies for a number of reasons, with some finding the experience so satisfying they choose to become surrogates.
Diane G. Sanford, a psychologist and author specializing in women's reproductive mental health, said while she doesn't know much about Nadya Suleman's background, women that have obsessive-compulsive disorder can become fixated on different obsessions.
"Her obsession centers around children, having children and being a mother," she said. "To what degree are her esteem and identity based on being a mom, and why has this from a young age been such a preoccupation of hers?"
Yolanda Garcia, 49, of Whittier, said she helped care for Nadya Suleman's autistic son three years ago.
"From what I could tell back then, she was pretty happy with herself, saying she liked having kids and she wanted 12 kids in all," Garcia told the Long Beach Press-Telegram.
"She told me that all of her kids were through in vitro, and I said 'Gosh, how can you afford that and go to school at the same time?'" she added. "And she said it's because she got paid for it."
Garcia said she did not ask for details.
Nadya Suleman holds a 2006 degree in child and adolescent development from California State University, Fullerton, and as late as last spring she was studying for a master's degree in counseling, college spokeswoman Paula Selleck told the Press-Telegram.
Her fertility doctor has not been identified. Her mother told the Los Angeles Times all the children came from the same sperm donor but she declined to identify him.
Birth certificates reviewed by The Associated Press identify a David Solomon as the father for the four oldest children. Certificates for the other children were not immediately available.
Angela Suleman told reporters Friday that doctors implanted far fewer than eight embryos, but they multiplied. Experts said this could be possible since Nadya Suleman's system has likely been hyperstimulated for years with fertilization treatments and drugs.
The news that the octuplets' mother already had six children sparked an ethical debate. Some medical experts were disturbed to hear that she was offered fertility treatment, and troubled by the possibility that she was implanted with so many embryos.
"You should always shoot for one," said Dr. Marcelle Cedars, a professor and director of reproductive health at the University of California, San Francisco, Medical Center, who worried about the increased risk of potential health complications for the babies.
Others worried that she would be overwhelmed trying to raise so many children and would end up relying on public support.
"This woman could not comprehend the ramifications of having eight children of the same age at the same time," said Judith Horowitz, a Parkland, Fla.-based psychologist and author who works with couples on fertility issues. "After Pampers stops delivering the free diapers, then what?"
The eight babies - six boys and two girls - were delivered by cesarean section weighing between 1 pound, 8 ounces and 3 pounds, 4 ounces. Forty-six physicians and staff assisted in the deliveries.
farmboy
Well-known member
the docter who implanted her was just doing his job... cant blame him
Jill
Well-known member
zach said:
The heck you can't, it's like the bartender giving the drunk one last drink before he killed someone, someone needs to know when to say NO!
justintime
Well-known member
I agree 100% with Jill. The Doctor had a role in this and he has to be held to some standard of responsibility.
farmboy
Well-known member
Jill said:
i get your drift, but thats a bad analogie...
Jill
Well-known member
Tell that to the 1 pound 8oz baby.
CM Cattle
Well-known member
I agree!Jill said:
xxcc
Well-known member
zach said:
is it? i think the state or federal government needs to step in on this one.
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