Biggest bull or female bust

[Doc]

How about Evergreen Seville? I think brought $105k or $115k. He got used a bunch & calf pullers & backhoes got used a bunch.

Here more recently was Kolt Cialis, I think Dylan Evans bought her for around $100k .

are u referring to Cialis as a bust?

Yes, I don't think she did a lot of winning & there aren't any calves registered out of her. Be glad to say I was wrong if I am.

 

[shortdawg]

I'm sure a lot of that kind of trading goes on but I haven't been in on any of it.

 

[bjs]

this topic makes me sick at my stomach!  oh the recession!!!!!

 

[aj]

Weren't the milestone cattle a bust for the most part.....weren't a bunch of champions flushed that really didn't pan out?

 

[sjcattleco]

Weren't the milestone cattle a bust for the most part.....weren't a bunch of champions flushed that really didn't pan out?

Man I can hear the cage rattling clear back here in Ohio

rattle rattle (argue)

 

[aj]

I know Hunsley once said"breeding champions to champions" isn't a breeding program. You should be planning out a couple generation ahead of time.You should be developing daughters that you already know what proven bull you will breed them to. Either for the showring or in stacking economical important traits. I am trying to learn some new ideas....bang the beach ball back and forth....thats all. Again I apologize....back up....stand corrected humbly listen for a response. There are different enviroments and different goals for everybody on here.

 

[Cattledog]

I know Hunsley once said"breeding champions to champions" isn't a breeding program. You should be planning out a couple generation ahead of time.You should be developing daughters that you already know what proven bull you will breed them to. Either for the showring or in stacking economical important traits. I am trying to learn some new ideas....bang the beach ball back and forth....thats all. Again I apologize....back up....stand corrected humbly listen for a response. There are different enviroments and different goals for everybody on here.

Well AJ...usually we have different stances and ideas about cattle but I am right with you on this one.  I just went through my semen inventory and I didn't see one show bull in there.  I've always been told to be leary of show bulls because of how badly they are altered.  I don't know the last time I've tried an unproven bull.  Guess when I was young and dumber(still don't think I'm very smart) I would try every new cool looking thing that was out there.  It's amazing how using proven sires has advanced my program! 

 

[justintime]

I don't think you should rule out all show bulls simply because they were shown. If you want to wait until they are proven, then that is a different deal altogether. TM Gus was a popular show bull , and he is proving to be a great breeding bull. JG Red Cloud was a Reserve National Champion. There are several more. There is often times a big difference  between showing breeding stock... and breeding show stock.

 

[Cattledog]

I don't think you should rule out all show bulls simply because they were shown. If you want to wait until they are proven, then that is a different deal altogether. TM Gus was a popular show bull , and he is proving to be a great breeding bull. JG Red Cloud was a Reserve National Champion. There are several more. There is often times a big difference  between showing breeding stock... and breeding show stock.

You're right I made a generalization.  I don't see many angus show bulls that can really pull there own weight.  I think alot of the really good angus bulls could be shown but the owners are afraid to show them as mature bulls because big cattle guys out west seem to refuse to use show bulls.  The more rugged they look the better. 

 

[knabe]

You're right I made a generalization.  I don't see many angus show bulls that can really pull there own weight.  I think alot of the really good angus bulls could be shown but the owners are afraid to show them as mature bulls because big cattle guys out west seem to refuse to use show bulls.  The more rugged they look the better. 

cattle need to travel more out here maybe as we have annuals and the dry season is pretty long.  pastures are usually pretty big.

 

[aj]

One thing worries me about Shorthorn some champion Shorthorn bulls.....is that it seems to me you have to have 110# bwt's in order to complete. After a couple of generations of this you have big birth weights in your genetics. Also in order for a show bull to win they have to be on full feed at a early age. So there is no selection for fleshing ability. They are probably on a donor cow so no udder quality presure is inccurred. After a year of age they are probably in a cooler rather than breeding 20 females in the heat and flies. So there is no seletion pressure there. After a couple generations of this I think potential problems can build up in a pedigree. I hate the damn wda deal in shows cause to start with birth dates might not be honest. You always push cattle to hard....heifers get fat...bulls feet go to hell. If you hammer and hammer with this kind of selection year after year you have problems accumelate. How many show bulls have birth weights under 100 pounds. How many show heifers?

 

[aj]

Wasn't there a Reserve Champ Herford bull a couple years back who had a bunch of interests sold on him then he got kicked out of the book because of foreign blood or something? What kind of recourse is there on a deal like that? Do people get their money back?

 

[HAFarm]

Seems likeI heard the Angus bull 5175 was bought at a production sale on his dam for like $5500, I am sure money was made on that deal. 

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

One thing worries me about Shorthorn some champion Shorthorn bulls.....is that it seems to me you have to have 110# bwt's in order to complete. After a couple of generations of this you have big birth weights in your genetics. Also in order for a show bull to win they have to be on full feed at a early age. So there is no selection for fleshing ability. They are probably on a donor cow so no udder quality presure is inccurred. After a year of age they are probably in a cooler rather than breeding 20 females in the heat and flies. So there is no seletion pressure there. After a couple generations of this I think potential problems can build up in a pedigree. I hate the damn wda deal in shows cause to start with birth dates might not be honest. You always push cattle to hard....heifers get fat...bulls feet go to hell. If you hammer and hammer with this kind of selection year after year you have problems accumelate. How many show bulls have birth weights under 100 pounds. How many show heifers?

TM Gus, TM Dazzler there are two in the last few years that won major shows and have a BW under 100.  It can be done. 

 

[the angus111]

JUST ONE ANGUS BULL,THAT WAS A SHOW BULL COMES TO MIND AS A PRETTY DECENT BREEDING BULL AND THAT IS GAMBLES HOT ROD,HE HAS A TON OF PRETTY DECENT PROGENY.WE USED HIM ,HE MADE NICE FEMALES.HE DID HAVE SOME BWS THAT WERE A LITTLE HIGH.JUST ANOTHER THOUGHT,THE SHOW INDUSTRY ,THE YOUNG JUDGES HAVE DECIDED THESE CATTLE NEED NOT BE FUNCTIONAL BUT SLOPPY FAT.I THINK THE REASON ALOT OF THESE BULLS ARE NOT HEARD FROM AGAIN ,LIKE SOMEONE ELSE SAID,THERE AGES ARE TWEEKED AND SEVERELY.LIVING FOR THE MOMENT AND NOT THE FUTURE.I THINK SOME GIVE UP THE FERTILITY FOR THE BANNER.I GUESS ITS WHAT YOUR NICHE IS.RUSTY

 

[VJ]

What about the "cowboys" that show up on the scene buying all the high dollar cattle; they amass a super-herd, win some major shows, and a few years later disperse never to be heard from again?

 

[Squeek]

A lot of those super-herds are put together for tax purposes. A lot of times the actual money man behind them is never seen, they are just looking for an outlet for some of their income from other business ventures. It's not the case with all of them but there are a few that come to mind.

Anyone know how much Lautner and Weidner originally gave for Heatwave? I bet that was a decent investment.

 

[aj]

Maybe there ought to be a poll....seriously......what would be the actual bwt of class winners in the national Angus or Shorthorn national shows. Make it a % deal. I bet 70% of Shorthorn bull class winners have a birth weight over 105#. Is this offbase?

 

[knabe]

so if say birth weights were normalized so that they didn't fall over that magic trigger of 100lbs and were say shifted to 150 and that 140 is what 90 is now, would the concern be as great?

maybe there are other issues related to birth weight such as structure that people aren't yet aware of.

maybe angus need the extra low birth weight because they need it.

therein lies perhaps a dilmena. unless one converts their cow base, birth weight may always be too much of an issue.

 

[afhm]

[quote Anyone know how much Lautner and Weidner originally gave for Heatwave? I bet that was a decent investment.
[/quote]
Not sure on that, but Gensini originally found and owned part of Heat Wave.