Breeding question for Shorthorn guys

[Dyer Show cattle]

My herd is all crossbreds mainly angus/simm with a little maine and a few charl/angus x cows. 2 problems. Kept back quite a few heifers out of the first crop of calves out of my simm bull just too good to let go so need to find an AI sire for most of them. Now I have some club calf genetics, My turn heifers, and for cows Ali, Sunseeker and WMW.

I want to get some shorthorn back in cows I want to keep. Not worried about steers/bulls so much as want good shorthorn heifers to keep back that will make good mothers. I could go clubby but don't care one way or another as long as they make good milking cows that will have a good frame size as well. I like most of my mature cows aroung 1400 lbs or more.

So for my open heifers not sure if I will go shorthorn, angus, or simm with them. Most of them would be 50-75% simm heifers. Would Jakes proud Jazz prob be the best one for heifers?

Now 2nd I want to breed a handfull of my cows. What would be your pick to breed Higher percentage angus, higher percentage simm, or some of my more 50-50 angus sim cows. Also What about my smi/charl cows. And what would be your picks. I have always liked Vegas but have never gotten a chance to see him in person. But would kind of like to get some roans to keep.

Also if you have opinions I would like to hear from people that have raised calves out of the bulls or seen them in person. I have seen some shorthorns around here at stud and I have looked through pictures and can make my own judgement about pics and I know for myself you can make a 500 dollar car look like a 5,000 dollar car with some paint and pictures. There is no substitute for seeing it in person and taking it for a spin around the block. Thanks, guys.

 

[sue]

I am only a few days from visiting a herd of simmxangus that used a very moderate son of Captain- Lakeside Geronimo, high seller in our 2010 denver pen. He covered 25 heifers and I believe the 1st 10 came in 2 days- lots of mud up there so the vigor was a necessity

.  This same herd used another Shorthorn bull from us a few years back ( ai) the calves were nice but the birth weights were all over the board- this ai bull was more of a powerbull and the mature growth was worse.

More often I see where shorthorn breeders have used the fire and ice type matings and then market those bulls to a composite herd like yourself - the results are not uniform.  Jazz I feel is probably linebred for type and calving ease, probably a good choice. Obviously I am going to throw in Captain and even RS 329- both bulls line bred for type function and calving ease but also moderate frame too.

Recently - I visited Meadowlane in Missouri. ML Cabela calves were moderate and extermely uniform- take a look at his pedigree and you'll know why. Meadowlane has a good feel for marketing to composite type herds.
Moores in Jerseyville, IL are using a Saskvalley Bonanza out of a Muridale Buster daughter- that bull is laying it all out, stacked pedigree for moderate frame, calving ease and flesh. His name is Muridale Bonanza 103U. Really smooth jointed width on both ends and deep bodied calves.

All i am saying is sort through your ai books - but get on the shorthorn page and look for some stacking too. Mating a -3.0 bw bull to a +5.6 bw cow doesnt make a consistant product in the end.

good luck

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Sue is absolutely right-It also depends on what you are looking for-A calving eas bull like JPJ- and Capt Obvious will not make 1400 cows out of very moderate clubbies-with the simmi in there-I would say Capt on hiefers-to get you most of the way. I feel he would work well on something with some maine in it JMO. The Rs bull will throw some more frame-and is as easy a calver as any. I personally like em thick-and thick butted.The Wymore bull (-Elbee Leader Etc-on cattle visions -not Gizmo-you can tell by the price)-Would be another strong choice-The Elbee cattle have an unmistakeable look,hip,thickness,and tend to  follow the cow for size,this is due to linebred Irsish breeding,calving ease is in the same range.A couple more THICK easy calving( 0 or near BW EPDS) SHORTHORNS THAT GO BACK TO MAINE;and  that dont get nearly the credit (but have pages of calves registered to them) are:Arsulu Osage,GB Daybreak Express,JF Perfect Image (yes-a Sprucehill Image Grandson with Maine and a little dual-WORKED GREAT on X-breds,a steer bull that had more frame than youd think),ALM Chiller(most of the time),and Trevor Grays 3/4 (got some red angus) shorthorn bull that got bought in Ohio.I think there are some real good Canadian deals too-the calves will get a little bigger-but come a little bigger-Im using Touchdown-but wouldnt put him on a clubby bred hiefer till you see some -HEll do it on cows though. LAST BUT NOT LEAST-my favorite commercial bull of ALL_the one Kevin Kimmerling kept the most daughter flushes on-and who KICKS ASS on x-breds (Kevins getting into simmis etc now) AND WHOSE A HIEFER BULL AS GOOD AS ANY-RS AFTER HOURS-my jmo -hands down choice onyour kind of cattle-Hes a ditto on the breeding TO HIEFERS,-Maine background-Elbee background etc. Just dont expect any big cows-he wieghs plenty-not real tall. O0

 

[Dyer Show cattle]

I am probably looking at using 2 bulls, 1 on heifers and 1 on cows, and with my cows most of them can calve 100 lb plus unassisted so thats no issue. I do need to buy some semen from my genex rep this year, but options are limited. The 2 bulls there I liked but had no info on was Touchdown and D&D Rider eagle MAX. So I am leaning on getting some Touchdown unless I hear anything about Rider Eagle.

Now the bulls from Cattle Vision I like are JPJ, C.O, Muridale Buster 2nd, or MAV Bellringer for heifer bulls. And for cows Im thinking Lakeside Nitro, MAV Charisma with a 18.25 REA 11 months and 20 at 12 is impressive to me, EUC Tobascok-kim Pleasure Pass, Sin City, SF George Jones, and Wernacres Off road.

I did find Wymore on Bull Barn. And I do like them thick all around. Would he be a heifer bull or better on cows? I didnt find any thing on GB Daybreak express of JF perfect image. Do you have any info on RS After Hours or where to buy it from. Also any more info on Muridale Bonaza 103U. Thanks.

Also I have liked Blue blood but never used him, dont know if raises any good replacements. I did see a blue roan bull at Nichols in Ankeny IA a couple years ago with a tag that said Blue and that was it, but he was a great looking bull.

 

[OH Breeder]

I am probably looking at using 2 bulls, 1 on heifers and 1 on cows, and with my cows most of them can calve 100 lb plus unassisted so thats no issue. I do need to buy some semen from my genex rep this year, but options are limited. The 2 bulls there I liked but had no info on was Touchdown and D&D Rider eagle MAX. So I am leaning on getting some Touchdown unless I hear anything about Rider Eagle.

Now the bulls from Cattle Vision I like are JPJ, C.O, Muridale Buster 2nd, or MAV Bellringer for heifer bulls. And for cows Im thinking Lakeside Nitro, MAV Charisma with a 18.25 REA 11 months and 20 at 12 is impressive to me, EUC Tobascok-kim Pleasure Pass, Sin City, SF George Jones, and Wernacres Off road.

I did find Wymore on Bull Barn. And I do like them thick all around. Would he be a heifer bull or better on cows? I didnt find any thing on GB Daybreak express of JF perfect image. Do you have any info on RS After Hours or where to buy it from. Also any more info on Muridale Bonaza 103U. Thanks.

Also I have liked Blue blood but never used him, dont know if raises any good replacements. I did see a blue roan bull at Nichols in Ankeny IA a couple years ago with a tag that said Blue and that was it, but he was a great looking bull.

Sin City and Wernacres Off road will give you little more frame. Sin City is some what unpreidctable on calf size. He has thrown them 70 to 130#. I only use Sin City on a mature cow that needs some height extension and will throw some hair.
I just used Wymore Elbee Leader on heifer for calving ease this week. His poppa Gizmo was calving ease deluxe.

 

[Doc]

On heifers of your choices I would probaby use Bellringer. On cows I would try something else other than what you have listed. JMO. I for sure wouldn't use George Jones, kinda of a dead pedigree. IMO. If I had to pick off the list I would try Pleasure Pass & Off Road.

 

[redcows]

I have a March calf by Charisma that I like very well; sound structured with some extra spring of rib and definitely some extra top and butt to him. I have one more coming and I'll use him again this year.