Cattle injected with air

[justintime]

I think every show, and every community has it's share of complainers. I call them CAVE people, in which CAVE stands for " citizens against virtually everything". If they can't find anything to complain about they make something up. Most of these people are just one level above white trailer trash usually,  but they try to put on a much more important air, than they actually are. I think these types of people are partially to blame for some good people saying" I know what they are doing is wrong, but I will just keep quiet , simply because I do not want to be thought of like the people who complain about everything". I think that this is why the cheaters get away with so much in many cases.

This being said, I do believe very strongly, that there comes a time when you must stand up for what you  believe. When this time comes, you first have to make sure you have your facts straight. If you do not think you can make a complaint by yourself, talk to an well respected person at your show, who is experienced and trusted. Tell them what you know and ask them what you should do. I think this will give you that second opinion that will help assure you that you are doing the right thing. Just shrinking into the corner and saying that you will just keep quiet because everyone is doing it, sure sends a negative message to your kids and to any others near you. There comes a time when you have to take a stand. It isn't easy, and you as Americans, should understand that, as your nation, has taken many stands around the world in the name of doing right.  At some point, evil, as well as sick perverted cheaters, liers, and low life lazy wimps and  bullies, have to be stood up to. The important thing is to get your facts straight, be as positive as you can be about them, have support of some respected people around you, and any proof of what has been done. It has to be handled properly, or you stand the risk of being seen as a CAVE person, but it is important that you, and me... and everyone else, who believes that there is no place in this business for this crap, take a stand for what we believe in.

To those who commented in this thread, that you should just keep quiet, I place you in the same category as the cheaters themselves. Better suck it up and grow some gonads, or you won't get too far in this life.

 

[justintime]

I just saw a couple posts above that I did not see when I was writing my above post. You had better know what is right and wrong before you complain. Trimming feet is NOT something wrong. Pumping animals is a gray issue, but I personally do not see that as being something to complain about. If pumping is wrong, you also better report those who add salt to feed to make the animal drink more before going into the ring, or those who cut drastically back on water to an animal several hours before a show so that it will drink more before it enters the ring. I would think that pumping an animal is much more humane treatment of an animal. Study your lessons and understand what is right and what is wrong.

 

[aj]

Hey.........I lived in a trailer for 10 years........DANG? ;D

 

[DLD]

Well...is hoof trimming as bad or cruel as airing..I thought that was pretty clear myself..lol.

They're nothing alike, not at all...  Do you not trim hooves on your show cattle?

 

[justintime]

just  to set the record straight.. there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with living in a trailer. I was using a " figure of speech" and probably should have chosen better words. Thanks aj for reminding me.
PS... I heard your trailer was very nice!

 

[stangs13]

I have always been told to get my cattles hooves trimmed every 60-90 days when they are showing..i know it really messes with structure if you dont and can effect them down the road...not to mention 4 inch long hooves does not look good...never heard of it as cheating! I am also sure steirwalt would not be making public videos about it if it was cheating/unethical/bad.

I was just curious as to why someone would even mention hoof trimming in this type of thread..lol.

And to modify my modify...I am a sr. member now...do I get some sort of prize?

 

[DLD]

I was just curious as to why someone would even mention hoof trimming in this type of thread..lol.

I was too - that's why I asked you to explain.  Sorry, I didn't see where someone else had mentioned it before.  My mistake.

 

[stangs13]

Oh its no problem! Sorry for the confusion. I have grown to really like this forum. There is a great diversity in its members, and topics that come with them.

 

[Cowboy]

Hey guys -- about my hoof trimming comment -- letme rephraise this so no one misunderstands.

Hoof trimming as a routine maintenance is a GOOD thing -- no one likes long ugly feet on thier show cattle. This is what I meant by my comment --

I have seen a couple of times, and heard MANY times of people taking one toe almost completly off the animal so it is so painfull -- it will only walk on the outside or inside of that foot -- by doing this, it will severely change the angle of the leg/foot over time. THIS is what I was eluding to -- not normal trimming. To severely damage a foot just to make it walk in a certain way to FORCE structure change is crual and inhumane. My very point in the first place.

Let that be known, I was not implying that normal hoof care was bad!

Terry

 

[Jacob B]

Just on the foot trimming.  I do think it is BAD, very bad.  I can't stand to have cows or bulls around that you have to keep trimming during the year.  It takes way too much of my time and money to have to deal with them.  I do understand while showing one it may take a trim or two if your feeding them hard.  I just remember those bulls that lived all there lifes without getting trimmed and that we shown to National titles.  That impresses me, good feet are a must.  As far as the cheating thing, everyone does something to alter an animal in some way.  Growing hair, clipping, fitting, etc.  Keeping cattle in the dark all their show carreer so that they maintain good hair isn't a natural thing for them.  I thing physical harm to an animal is however WRONG.  Air and many other thngs people do I do not agree with. 

 

[OH Breeder]

Not even any oldtimers can tell if a steer has been aired. Most calves are aired up to six months before they are shown.If it isn't airing,it is something else.These practices have gone on for over fifty years.They will go on for fifty more.Hell,airing is the least of your problems with show cattle.Showing steers especially has been a cut throat bussiness for many many years. If you don't believe in some of the practices that occur in showing steers,may I suggest a different hobby. This business is like the big time drug dealers,they keep in business cause there are always someone to buy the product.Steer jocks,the one's that are really good in most circles will always stay one step ahead.You don't heaqr from many of the people in Texas and Oklahoma complaining about what so and so does to steers or pigs or sheep.You know why? It's because they love what they do and take pride in trying to beat one another,whether it's right or wrong.most of the complainers are folks who would not win even if they cheated and told everyone they cheated.This business is not for the weak,and if you think you or a bunch of you will put a stop to some of the things that go on with show cattle or hogs or sheep or goats,well I'm sorry it ain't going to happen. There has been hundred's of complaints with Lawyers and courts getting involved and it still happens. Sooner or later when your money runs out,and you get disgraced for being the complainer,you will realize that you didn't really stir anything up that hasn't been stirred up before,with the same result. If you can't beat them,join them or keep to yourself and keep trying as hard as you can and every once in a while you might beat the one's your complaining about. The biggest problem with complaining all the time,ninety percent of the time it's jealousy.A lot of people just can't understand that their steer really wasn't as good as the calf that beat them any ways.You have the god given right to complain at anytime,but you must realize that it can backfire if your accusations are wrong.If you think the cattle showing business is crooked,why in gods name would you try to compete?the repurcussions to you or your family members can be devastating if you accuse someone of something you can't prove.It's just the way it has always been and there is very little that can be done....Good Luck.

Maybe I missed something here.  ??? TMJ are you really serious about some of your comments. A fewfolks  on this thread seem to have taken that you support cheating or may turn the other cheek if you wittnessed it? I have read your paragraph and have tried to understand it. Can you clarify you comments. This seems to be out of character from some of your previous post on the board. If this is your stance and this is the way you feel I guess I am disappointed in your sentiment. For a board that is frequented by so many young showman it really sends a sad message.

 

[stangs13]

Im not sure what your getting at? All of our calves are as sound as a cat and have great feet, but they still need there feet trimmed.

 

[aj]

At least they are cracking down on people doctoring photos.....thats the important thing! Knabe....maybe you could air one cheek and not the other....then we could do a experiment-comparison. I am assuming you would be leaning to the right. ;D

 

[box6rranch]

To those who commented in this thread, that you should just keep quiet, I place you in the same category as the cheaters themselves. Better suck it up and grow some gonads, or you won't get too far in this life.

Sorry, I don't agree with this comment. I would never feed a child to the wolves. Every situation is different. If the person posting this thread doesn't have hard evidence, witnesses and strong support they will be eaten alive. People will turn on the person trying to do the right thing and it will effect his/her life. Seen it happen. What goes around comes around. The cheaters will get theirs it's just a matter of time.

 

[Dusty]

TMJ,  if you were to call someone from my part of the country weak because they don't cheat, it'd get your mouth busted. When I was in high school  a time when a few Americans still had some guts, there was a person at a district show who was particularly arrogant about how much he had paid for a steer and all the "tricks" the people he was bringing in from IA, unheard of at the time, were going to use to make sure his little girl won the next day.  Well she did. And then 6 of the parents of the children who had been cheated put that man in the hospital that night. If people today were willing to stand up for their children like those people were this crap would cease. If people knew they were going to have broken bones, teeth out and hospital stays if they were caught, it wouldn't happen. I can't freakin believe you said someone was weak because they won't cheat. People who are weak cheat children.

Are you serious?  You condone beating someone to the point of putting them in the hospital over a cattle show?  What kind of example is that?  Get beat in the show so you put the dad of the girl that beat you in the hospital?  That is way worse than cheating in a cattle show.

When you get beat you shake the winners hand.  I've shaken the hands of a lot of people that I didn't care for over the years, but they won, they beat me.  Instead of setting the example of beating someone into a coma,why don't you get a better calf, work harder and then you beat them next year.

Most cattle are aired 2-3 months before they show.  So even when they cut the head off and the carcass is hanging in the meat lab the aired part has filled in with fat.  People might know or suspect one has been aired, but it is impossible to prove. 

Is it right.  No.  Can you do anything about it?  Unless you have hard evidence, like a video of the calf being aired, even then you better have shot of the head with the eartag visible. No.  So the only thing you can do is keep trying and do your own thing.

Also it gets old hearing the same people complain every year that they didn't win cuz of this or that.  Or hear people say so and so cheated...  If you don't agree with something thats fine, but just keep your mouth shut.  90% of the people that complain about cheating are the ones who would never win anyway.  If the people that complain spent more time worrying about their own animals instead of everyone elses they might actually get in the purple sometime.

 

[justintime]

box6, I will agree with you,  but I also said in order to file a complaint, you better have your facts straight, have evidence and also support of some others who are reputable cattle people in your community. If you don't have all this, you will definitely be eaten alive. I was referring to the comments on here that basically said, everyone does it, don't make waves, and if you can't beat them - you might as well join them. I consider these people as being in the same boat as the ones who cheat to compete. These people enable the cheaters.

I heard a lady on a talk show a few days ago. Her son received 150 stitches from a police dog who he had tried to fight off. Her son was 13 years old and was waving a knife at two women at 3 am. The talk show host asked the woman, the first question that comes to mind is what was your son doing out at 3 am and secondly, why was he carrying a knife. The mother responded that her son was really a very good boy, and that she could not watch him 24 hours a day. As for the knife, she said that her son carried a knife because all the kids carry knives. This lady is just enabling her son to do what ever he does, and unless he sees some decent parenting, he will be very lucky not to end up sending a big part of his life in the crowbar hotel.

While the scenerio in this thread is somewhat different, I see some similarities. If we all just let the cheaters blatantly do unethical things and basically rub it in our faces, and we simply let them do it, they are basically bringing us all down to their level. But again, it takes facts, proof, support, courage, and a proper approach to stand up and take a stand.  I agree that every situation is different and that is why you can't just run on emotions and rumors. Sometimes you have to concede that is is a war you will not win, but someday you will have to take on that fight.

 

[justintime]

I will also agree with Dusty's comments about beating someone and putting them in the hospital. That is just plain WRONG!  It is even beyond wrong, and there simply is no time where physical violence could ever be justified especially in the name of a cattle show. This kind  of action would probably cause more parents to not allow their children to ever be a part of showing animals again. I cannot believe someone would ever condone these actions, especially on this site that has a lot of young people on it.

I also agree with Dusty in regards to accepting defeat in an honorable manner. I also have shaken the hands of many people I did not care to. It also spurs me on to try to be better the next time we meet in the show ring. My comments about standing up for your beliefs only refers to times you have seen and can prove that someone has broken the rules. If you aren't sure, keep your mouth shut, and don't create a fight you have no chance of winning.

 

[blackcows]

I think we see such a difference in opinions here because, as I see it, we have gotten to the point in the show cattle industry that we have a lot of non cattle people showing cattle.  In my opinion the fact that you have 5 or 6 cows doesn't make you a cattleman (or cattlewomen), There are a lot of people showing that have never had to sell a load of feeder cattle or sell a pen of fat cattle.  They never had to sell bulls to commercial cattlemen or sell a load of replacement females.  We just got through with our county fair and had a great time and did really well.  It is the same county I grew up in and I have thinking about how much it has changed, 25 years ago it was mostly farm families that were showing cattle that came out of their cow herd and went right back in as soon as the fairs were over.  Our parents would have been very unhappy if we did anything out of the ordinary to our cattle as they made our income.  Sure we kept them separate and fed a little better than the rest but certainly didn't do anything that would have jeopardized their health or well being.  At that time I am sure there were a few people that just showed cattle but in the last several years I think the scale has really tilted to the point that we see a lot more non cattle people showing that see their cattle as nothing different than a race car or pulling tractor, something to be tinkered with and used up and replaced next year.

In a thread not too long ago there was a post in which someone implied that it was called a steer show and basically said if they wanted to pick the best market animal they should just harvest them and judge the carcass.  It is that disconnect with the cattle industry that I think is ruining a lot of our fairs.  Have we really gotten to the point that a person showing doesn't understand that the purpose of a market animal is to produce a desirable carcass in an efficient manner?

 

[oakbar]

Wow!!!  How many people do you think would encourage their kids to show cattle if every time someone disagreed with the placings they just beat up the person that beat them.  I'm not saying there aren't a few big egos out there who couldn't use some corrective action, but to physically beat someone because he mouthed off at a cattle show and then won is ludicrous.  If a person can't deal with getting beat in the show ring(remember everybody but one person gets beaten) that person probaby doesn't handle the rest of their life very well either.  I sure as heck wouldn't want my kids around the winner--but I really wouldn't want them around the bad losers.  Sounds like a lynch mob to me!!

 

[farwest]

Absolutely my favorite topic.

There will always be people who accuse others of cheating. It seems to be human nature to be jealous of those with success. Not all winners cheat.

You should know going in to this show animal deal that cheating is going to occur. If you can't deal with it, you might as well just beat your head against a concrete block because you'll accomplish the same thing with all of your complaints, a head ache. When we showed open shows big time I didn't care what anyone did to their cattle. In a big open show there is so much to be gained from exhibiting your cattle besides winning. Cheating is going to occur anywhere money or winning is involved.

HOWEVER, an adult who would cheat a child is the lowest form of life on this planet. You air up that calf, you use the drugs, you pump its stomach, you do whatever it is that is against the rules and you are cheating every other child in that show. DO YOU GET THAT?? You are cheating a child.

TMJ,  if you were to call someone from my part of the country weak because they don't cheat, it'd get your mouth busted. When I was in high school  a time when a few Americans still had some guts, there was a person at a district show who was particularly arrogant about how much he had paid for a steer and all the "tricks" the people he was bringing in from IA, unheard of at the time, were going to use to make sure his little girl won the next day.  Well she did. And then 6 of the parents of the children who had been cheated put that man in the hospital that night. If people today were willing to stand up for their children like those people were this crap would cease. If people knew they were going to have broken bones, teeth out and hospital stays if they were caught, it wouldn't happen. I can't freakin believe you said someone was weak because they won't cheat. People who are weak cheat children.

The other thing he mentioned was that if you complain you will be embarrassed to no end. This is a sad statement on our society in general that the people in the right are embarrassed and the pond scum who cheat children are not and is seen to be the victim.

Gonewest? Gonewest? Gonewest?  hmmm.  Oh now i remember.  The one that posted under a thread titled "live chat" on how to raise kids correctly.  Yeah, makes sense to me.    NOT.