Club calve bulls..

[insjockey]

So I am just trying to learn more about this side of the business, so please don't take anything personal.

We have a small herd, 35+/- commercial cows with 2 Simbrah bulls..have been thrilled and working on improving the makeup of the herd, starting to mix in some Simmi bulls on AI. etc..

We pay very close attention to EPD's and try to mix and match to keep improving the numbers.

So here is my questions..

#1 That does not seem to be the case with the club calve world, I know a lot of them are a different mix of breeds so you cant always do that..there is even a thread on this front page about a simmi bull calve and while he looks good his EPD's would never work for me. So how do you tell the best for BW and/or CE?

#2 Every website I look at, including the ones that advertise on this page, when I go to look at there sires, the pics on these bulls look like they are 4-8 months old and their hair is all made up like they got hit with a shot of electricity. I know that is the look but where to you see the final product..when there are 18+ months old and working cows, or at least pics similar to what you would see on Genex or Bovine Elite of a straight bred bull? Or is that just the way they look all the time?

Once again, not trying to start anything..but just trying to learn more about this side of the business.

 

[RankeCattleCo]

Calving ease is more genetics and experience.. A Heat Wave descendent wouldn't want to be used on anything that has less than 2 calves at least. Ali and sons can almost always be used for CE (as long as the bull's dam wasn't HW influenced). Angus are also common on first calf heifers.

Unless you go to view the bulls in stud, you won't generally see photos of the bulls past 12-14 months, at least not published or official photos.

Hope this helped,
RCC

 

[Clubby24]

EPDs are worthless to most clubby breeders, (some say all the time, I would agree with that.) but your right on the bull pictures, most are very young in photos, it would be great to see mature pics.

 

[RankeCattleCo]

EPD's are 100% non-existent in the clubby world

 

[Clubby24]

Because they mean nothing.

 

[ZNT]

So here is my questions..

#1 That does not seem to be the case with the club calve world, I know a lot of them are a different mix of breeds so you cant always do that..there is even a thread on this front page about a simmi bull calve and while he looks good his EPD's would never work for me. So how do you tell the best for BW and/or CE?

#2 Every website I look at, including the ones that advertise on this page, when I go to look at there sires, the pics on these bulls look like they are 4-8 months old and their hair is all made up like they got hit with a shot of electricity. I know that is the look but where to you see the final product..when there are 18+ months old and working cows, or at least pics similar to what you would see on Genex or Bovine Elite of a straight bred bull? Or is that just the way they look all the time?

Once again, not trying to start anything..but just trying to learn more about this side of the business.

If you have ever been to our website, you will find mature pictures of some of our bulls, and all throw low to moderate birth weights.  But we have always been ones to buck the system.  ;D

 

[insjockey]

Thanks..

Where would I find your site ZNT?

 

[Mainevent]

Because they mean nothing.

Have to agree with you, its all cool if you want to raise EPD cattle but as far as phenotype I have yet to see one good on paper and on the flesh. To me EPDs are useless in the show ring.

 

[ZNT]

Thanks..

Where would I find your site ZNT?

www.zntcattle.com

 

[cowboy_nyk]

The issue with EPDs is that they are only useful and truly accurate when looking at large groups of progeny.  In my case, I prefer to use sires with good EPDs and high accuracies because we are breeding a large number of cattle.  On a large group, EPDs will do a good job of predicting the average outcome for a group of calves (when you use a high accuracy sire).  For most clubby breeders, they are dealing with small numbers.  EPDs are really terrible at predicting the outcome of a single mating. 

Also, since they have not come up with epds for "cool hair", "freaky fronts", color, or amount of bone, they really aren't all that relevant to the average clubby guy anyway (aside from maybe BW).