Couple of beginners questions

[fourquarters]

Recently we decided to buy a few heifers.  Have been raising AQHA horses for years and decided to scale that back and try the cattle business becaue we had too much grass going to waste.  Would like to eventually have 10 or so heifers.  So far we have 2 Angus and 2 Herefords.  They won't be bred until May or June waiting on them to reach 15 months so we have some time to find more heifers and decide what kind of bull to purchase.  There are many more good Angus heifers here locally to choose from.  The Herefords we like are from 3 hours away and he only gets 1 or 2 heifers to sell each spring and fall so it would take forever to get enough of those.  Several Angus operations that are neighbors and they AI their Angus cows and use a Hereford bull for clean up.  We are leaning toward thinking we want to raise baldys, we seem to like the cross calves better than the purebred Angus.  Not interested in showing or registered cattle just want to produce some nice calves with some color.  Would most people continue buying Angus heifers and get a lbw Hereford bull?  Buy a lbw Simmental bull with a white face and homozygous black to cross with Angus and Hereford?  Disposition is a big factor, don't want a bunch of hard to handle cattle.  Any advice would be appreciated, we are in central KY near Lexington.  Thanks, Denise

 

[vc]

I would go with the Angus heifers, IA to a low birth weight Hereford bull, or lease a low birth weight Hereford bull. Do you plan on keeping the heifers or selling all the calves? If you plan on keeping the some of your heifers, that is when I would think about buying a Baldy Simmy to put with the herd. Since it sounds like you prefer to just produce cattle that are eye appealing to you and sell them off as feeders , or maybe as fats, I think whatever you decide will work for you. I think with 10 head you might be better off AI and leasing a cleanup bull. Bulls can be a bigger problem than there worth, and after the 2 months of breeding season they can get a little destructive trying to keep them selves busy.

As far as temperament; with the heifers walk through them watch how they act, if they high tail it and bounce off the fence, or move off about 20 feet turn and stair you down with their tail up, head up and look like they aren't sure if they want eat you or just run you over, these are the heifers you don't load on to your trailer (no matter how good they look). The heifers that move off with the group or just move out of your way and stay clear, trying to avoid eye contact (most the time you cant see their ear tag because it stuck under another heifers belly or in the center of the herd) these heifers will probably be the type you want, or the one that just keeps eating as you walk through the herd are a good bet as well. As my uncle would say, the one trying to blow snot in your pocket as you go over the fence, is not a cow you want around when it comes time for calving.

What ever you decide to do, have fun, nothing better that a bunch of baldy calves running around the pasture.

 

[obie105]

Baldies are selling very well right now. Many guys do the angus heifers and cross hereford bulls on them. Herefords are known for disposition. There are some very good low birth weight hereford bulls out there right now. The simmental cross will give you a little more size to your calf crop and with the 2 herefords you already have you could end up with some off colors depending on genetics. Its really up to you. If you have the time to a.i. it is a great option. You could also look at leasing a clean up bull. Bulls are very hard on a place.

 

[fourquarters]

I would go with the Angus heifers, IA to a low birth weight Hereford bull, or lease a low birth weight Hereford bull. Do you plan on keeping the heifers or selling all the calves? If you plan on keeping the some of your heifers, that is when I would think about buying a Baldy Simmy to put with the herd. Since it sounds like you prefer to just produce cattle that are eye appealing to you and sell them off as feeders , or maybe as fats, I think whatever you decide will work for you. I think with 10 head you might be better off AI and leasing a cleanup bull. Bulls can be a bigger problem than there worth, and after the 2 months of breeding season they can get a little destructive trying to keep them selves busy.

As far as temperament; with the heifers walk through them watch how they act, if they high tail it and bounce off the fence, or move off about 20 feet turn and stair you down with their tail up, head up and look like they aren't sure if they want eat you or just run you over, these are the heifers you don't load on to your trailer (no matter how good they look). The heifers that move off with the group or just move out of your way and stay clear, trying to avoid eye contact (most the time you cant see their ear tag because it stuck under another heifers belly or in the center of the herd) these heifers will probably be the type you want, or the one that just keeps eating as you walk through the herd are a good bet as well. As my uncle would say, the one trying to blow snot in your pocket as you go over the fence, is not a cow you want around when it comes time for calving.

What ever you decide to do, have fun, nothing better that a bunch of baldy calves running around the pasture.

Thank you, that sounds  like some good and practical advice.  So far we like what we have, 2 are broke to lead and gentle as dogs ( Herefords).  The other 2 (Angus)  will follow you anywhere with a bucket of feed and none of them are pushy or mean in any way.  I do notice the  Angus are more alert to their surroundings and very cautious.  The Herefords ignore just about anything unless food is involved.  They also are more aggressive about eating and gobble up most of the food, where the Angus seem to pick at it or eat slower. As of right now we are not worried about replacements, so guess we can go either way with a bull.  We have a friend with 6-7 cows that he wants to breed now.  We are thinking of splitting a bull and keeping it 1/2 the year at his place and the other 1/2 here.  He is hung up on getting a Hereford bull.  He has mean cows that will run thru a fence or run over you if they get a chance so he thought he should definitely go Hereford  to try and get some easier to handle animals out of the deal.  If it weren't for that I would probably prefer a Simmi blady bull.  I might try to find a weanling bull calf to bring along for later, something I could start right off the cow to get it gentled down and broke to lead.  We have several good necking donkeys so I think I could get one broke enough to handle easily.  Thanks for your time.  

 

[fourquarters]

Baldies are selling very well right now. Many guys do the angus heifers and cross hereford bulls on them. Herefords are known for disposition. There are some very good low birth weight hereford bulls out there right now. The simmental cross will give you a little more size to your calf crop and with the 2 herefords you already have you could end up with some off colors depending on genetics. Its really up to you. If you have the time to a.i. it is a great option. You could also look at leasing a clean up bull. Bulls are very hard on a place.

We are going to split a bull with a friend who has 6-7 cows so we would only have him 1/2 the time. He would prefer Hereford because his cows are not too nice to be around.  If he gets too rambunctious we can put him in a double fenced paddock and hot wire it if need be. Could put a donkey in for company if need be.  Most of our pastures are double fenced so hopefully he wouldn't have much chance to fight across the fence or try to get to the neighbors cows. We were thinking that we should buy a long yearling or young bull just reaching breeding maturity that might cut down on some problems.    I have thought about doing AI with the 2 Herefords, not really wanting to raise straight Herefords.  Think I might AI them to a baldy Simmental and see what happens. Would you have a suggestion for an AI bull like that for heifers?  They are broke to lead, tie, like being in the stall.  They should be easy enough to get AI work done. 
Thank you for the information.  Denise

 

[herfluvr]

Have walked in your shoes and have just a few ideas for you.  No matter what you choose make yourself some kind of containment area with a head chute.  Preferably out of the elements.  Having had to pull one colt in 25+ years of raising horses, I have learned how to put chains on and pull calves and if the cows are not show broke you will need a chute for this and doctoring your cattle.  I do spoil ours a bit and they are all trained to follow the gator with some feed in it when I need to gather them myself or move areas.  Gator means food to them.  Had a dairy farmer friend teach us how to pull calves and his help has been wonderful.  Even if you are raising commercial calves, get to know the cows.  Walk through them a lot.  You will learn their temperaments and will be able to better handle them if they know you.  Raising beef vs horses is different.  Good news is beef are not beavers!  Much easier on fences and stall areas than horses.  If you have a bull, know if there are any cows close.  Those boys like to wander a bit if they think they can.  The bull we have now jumps fences so we keep him close to the barn to keep an eye on him.  Good Luck!  You will enjoy the cows!

 

[obie105]

If your looking for a low birth weight hereford bull for a.i. look at ups domino 3027 or harland. These are both proven calving ease bulls. I also started with horses too. The one thing I did learn is working facilities are needed even for the gentlest of cows. All of our cows have been show heifers so they are all broke to lead but they know when its time to do shots.  Lol. You also never know with calving heifers what may happen and if you will need a chute. Splitting a bull sounds like a good idea for your situation. 

 

[paj315]

For sure go with angus cows and hereford bull. There are a lot of good ones out there. In fact there is one for sale in the SP classifieds. He is not a show bull just a good herd bull

 

[fourquarters]

If your looking for a low birth weight hereford bull for a.i. look at ups domino 3027 or harland. These are both proven calving ease bulls. I also started with horses too. The one thing I did learn is working facilities are needed even for the gentlest of cows. All of our cows have been show heifers so they are all broke to lead but they know when its time to do shots.  Lol. You also never know with calving heifers what may happen and if you will need a chute. Splitting a bull sounds like a good idea for your situation. 

Thank you.  Yes, we are trying to figure out where to build some sort of handling area.  We have big run in sheds in the fields but not in handy places to get a trailer in and out.  I think we will get a couple of our cattle neighbors to come over and look around.  They will probably be able to give us some ideas.  We have already realized even the best thought out horse farms do not match up to how cattle farms are set up.  Thanks

 

[fourquarters]

If your looking for a low birth weight hereford bull for a.i. look at ups domino 3027 or harland. These are both proven calving ease bulls. I also started with horses too. The one thing I did learn is working facilities are needed even for the gentlest of cows. All of our cows have been show heifers so they are all broke to lead but they know when its time to do shots.  Lol. You also never know with calving heifers what may happen and if you will need a chute. Splitting a bull sounds like a good idea for your situation. 

Thank you.  I will look those bulls up. 

 

[fourquarters]

Recently we decided to buy a few heifers.  Have been raising AQHA horses for years and decided to scale that back and try the cattle business becaue we had too much grass going to waste.  Would like to eventually have 10 or so heifers.  So far we have 2 Angus and 2 Herefords.  They won't be bred until May or June waiting on them to reach 15 months so we have some time to find more heifers and decide what kind of bull to purchase.  There are many more good Angus heifers here locally to choose from.  The Herefords we like are from 3 hours away and he only gets 1 or 2 heifers to sell each spring and fall so it would take forever to get enough of those.  Several Angus operations that are neighbors and they AI their Angus cows and use a Hereford bull for clean up.  We are leaning toward thinking we want to raise baldys, we seem to like the cross calves better than the purebred Angus.  Not interested in showing or registered cattle just want to produce some nice calves with some color.  Would most people continue buying Angus heifers and get a lbw Hereford bull?  Buy a lbw Simmental bull with a white face and homozygous black to cross with Angus and Hereford?  Disposition is a big factor, don't want a bunch of hard to handle cattle.  Any advice would be appreciated, we are in central KY near Lexington.  Thanks, Denise

For sure go with angus cows and hereford bull. There are a lot of good ones out there. In fact there is one for sale in the SP classifieds. He is not a show bull just a good herd bull

Thank you.  That is probably how we will go, considering there is a good selection of those type of cows/heifers here locally.  Do you think they need to be straight Angus in particular?  Every once in a while you see a hefier adversited locally this was a county fair type show calf that is at least gentle and broke to lead priced for about what a purebred Angus heifer straight out of the field would be.   Most of them say Chiangus or a Maine/Angus type cross.  Thank you, Denise

 

[vc]

In my opinion, I would stay away from the cross heifers, not because their a cross, but if you plan on retaining any heifers later you would want to test the cross heifers for TH and PHA. With the cross heifers you would really want to look hard at the bloodlines prior to purchase, some club calf bloodlines, tend to make poorer mothers. I think you would be better buying Angus heifers direct from the breeders, trying to get heifers with more of a maternal linage. I think you will have less headaches if you stay away from the clubby bred heifers.
I do not think birth weight is a big deal in the horse world, but it makes a big difference in the cattle world, easy calving cows from low birth weight genetics are allot more fun than hard doing, hard calving, cows.

 

[fourquarters]

In my opinion, I would stay away from the cross heifers, not because their a cross, but if you plan on retaining any heifers later you would want to test the cross heifers for TH and PHA. With the cross heifers you would really want to look hard at the bloodlines prior to purchase, some club calf bloodlines, tend to make poorer mothers. I think you would be better buying Angus heifers direct from the breeders, trying to get heifers with more of a maternal linage. I think you will have less headaches if you stay away from the clubby bred heifers.
I do not think birth weight is a big deal in the horse world, but it makes a big difference in the cattle world, easy calving cows from low birth weight genetics are allot more fun than hard doing, hard calving, cows.

Thanks for the info.  Good information.  I would definitely prefer doing things the easy way vs the hard way.  The thing I have found interesting is a couple of the neighbors used Hereford clean up bulls after they AI'd the Angus. They said the real reason we so the clean up calves would be easy to spot since most would have at least some white on them.  They had several black baldy heifers that we thought would be plenty good enough for us to start with and might not have been quite as expensive as the Angus heifers in the same pasture.  One guy said he was keeping all his baldys for recips and the other one said he was keeping his to cross back on Angus.  That leaves us to think the Angus cows and Hereford bull should work out ok and there will be a decent market for them.  Thanks, Denise

 

[leanbeef]

I wouldn't argue with anybody wanting to make black baldies...we're doing the same thing with Angus x Simmental cattle. I don't think the Hereford is a bad idea, especially for the first calf heifers, in terms of birth weight, calving ease, and predictable baldy color pattern. I would encourage you to explore the Simmental x Angus cross, especially for the second time around. You'll get more performance, more pounds, more muscle, and better carcass yield in your feeder steers as well as more milk in your replacement females. And don't assume that every Hereford will be easier calving and lighter birth weights than every Simmental...that won't be true.

We started raising Simmental in 1971 by crossing Fullblood bulls on commercial Angus and Hereford cows. The Simmental cross is what sold us on the breed, and you'll love the halfbloods out of either Angus OR Hereford females. Any black bull will make baldies out of the Hereford heifers...the white face is the dominant gene. In order to make baldies out of Angus cows, a blaze faced Simmental bull will make SOME, but don't think they'll all be blaze faced or baldies. Most of the blaze faced bulls out there have one solid black parent and will throw a certain percentage of solids on black females. We just bought a baldy bull out of two baldy parents, and he has white legs, a white belly & a white tail. A lot of people would be scared of a bull like that because they'll throw spots on some cows, but the spot gene is recessive and Angus don't carry one, so you won't get spots on the F1s. You need to understand the genetics in order to get what you want in your calf crop...especially with Simmental. But there's plenty of benefit to putting yourself through that learning curve! It's not nearly as complicated as trying to guess what color a foal is gonna be!

 

[fourquarters]

I wouldn't argue with anybody wanting to make black baldies...we're doing the same thing with Angus x Simmental cattle. I don't think the Hereford is a bad idea, especially for the first calf heifers, in terms of birth weight, calving ease, and predictable baldy color pattern. I would encourage you to explore the Simmental x Angus cross, especially for the second time around. You'll get more performance, more pounds, more muscle, and better carcass yield in your feeder steers as well as more milk in your replacement females. And don't assume that every Hereford will be easier calving and lighter birth weights than every Simmental...that won't be true.

We started raising Simmental in 1971 by crossing Fullblood bulls on commercial Angus and Hereford cows. The Simmental cross is what sold us on the breed, and you'll love the halfbloods out of either Angus OR Hereford females. Any black bull will make baldies out of the Hereford heifers...the white face is the dominant gene. In order to make baldies out of Angus cows, a blaze faced Simmental bull will make SOME, but don't think they'll all be blaze faced or baldies. Most of the blaze faced bulls out there have one solid black parent and will throw a certain percentage of solids on black females. We just bought a baldy bull out of two baldy parents, and he has white legs, a white belly & a white tail. A lot of people would be scared of a bull like that because they'll throw spots on some cows, but the spot gene is recessive and Angus don't carry one, so you won't get spots on the F1s. You need to understand the genetics in order to get what you want in your calf crop...especially with Simmental. But there's plenty of benefit to putting yourself through that learning curve! It's not nearly as complicated as trying to guess what color a foal is gonna be!

That is along the lines of what I was thinking.  The bulls that I see, that I really like are Simmental or SimAngus with white on them.  I think crossing back on that type of bull with the Angus/Herford baldies would be just the type of cattle we eventually want to produce.  A month or so ago  I noticed 4 baldy bulls that showed up in the bull pasture at one of the  neighbors.  He is an older gentleman that has been in the cattle business his entire life.  I asked him to clue me in.  They have 2 types of cows down there.  Angus/Hereford cross and in another group of some really good lookiing chocolate/smokey heifers.  He said they were Angus/Charlias.  2 of the bulls were purebred Simmental and 2 were SimAngus that he had replaced all of his Angus bulls with.  I will be really interested in seeing his calves next year. 

 

[leanbeef]

If ur neighbor is using the purebred bulls on the Hereford x Angus baldy cows and the SimAngus bulls on those Angus x Charolais smokes, he's on to something. I'd say he knows exactly what he's doing!

 

[fourquarters]

If ur neighbor is using the purebred bulls on the Hereford x Angus baldy cows and the SimAngus bulls on those Angus x Charolais smokes, he's on to something. I'd say he knows exactly what he's doing!

Yes, that is what he is doing.  I will keep a watch on what is going on down there.  Might save us alot of the "learning curve" since we know nothing at all.  I think I will ask him if my heifers "accidentally" get out, which pasture would it be best for them to get into over there.  lol

 

[fourquarters]

If ur neighbor is using the purebred bulls on the Hereford x Angus baldy cows and the SimAngus bulls on those Angus x Charolais smokes, he's on to something. I'd say he knows exactly what he's doing!

Hey Chris.  You need to bring Z61R on up here to KY.  Just being nosey but what is that spotted calf on your profile picture on here?  Denise

 

[leanbeef]

Say the word and I think that can be arranged!

The spotted calf in that picture is a Built Right, and that's his mother. She's a blue roan...half Angus, 1/4 Shorthorn, 1/8 Hereford & 1/8 Simmental. One of my favorite cows!

 

[firesweepranch]

Say the word and I think that can be arranged!

The spotted calf in that picture is a Built Right, and that's his mother. She's a blue roan...half Angus, 1/4 Shorthorn, 1/8 Hereford & 1/8 Simmental. One of my favorite cows!

What did you do with that Built Right calf? He sure looks cool! Did you steer him?