EMERGENCY!!! Whats going on?????

[reno1014]

My heifer was bred on Dec.30th and I was told two months ago by the Vet assistant that she should be due on the 10th of this month.
Last week she started having mucus stuff coming out.  Yesterday morning she had a little blood in it.  Also this morning.  I called the vet
this morning and the assistant told me it was okay.  Well five minutes ago they called back and said that she was due yesterday and for me
to get her there asap, because they didnt like the blood thing.  What is going on?  I have her being transported there right now and he
is 45 minutes away...I cannot be with her because I teach night school.  Anyone have any advice on what is going on?

 

[simtal]

I wouldnt get too worried about a little blood, I think your vets are being overkill.  Pre-parturient cows have all kinds of gross stuff cow outta em.  Just let mother nature take its course.

 

[ROMAX]

At least the truck ride should induce her.

 

[justintime]

I am concerned about seeing blood in the mucus. If it is only a little blood and it does not reoccur it is probably nothing to worry about, but if it reoccurs it can be a sign of the fetus in distress. Sometimes this happens when the calf dies late in the pregnancy . I do not want to scare you but I think it is best to have the heifer checked out and at least you will know if the calf is alive.

 

[CAB]

  Inquiring minds and busy bobies all want to know. Update please, and I hope that it is good news for us all!!!! Brent

 

[reno1014]

Update:  They induced labor last night about 7 p.m. I called this morning and they said that there is no change yet.  If her cervix is dialated they
will go in and pull the calf.  As of last night the calf was still alive.... As a last resort they said a c-section might be necessary.  I will update as i know
anything.  Thanks all.

 

[Cattledog]

Update:  They induced labor last night about 7 p.m. I called this morning and they said that there is no change yet.  If her cervix is dialated they
will go in and pull the calf.  As of last night the calf was still alive.... As a last resort they said a c-section might be necessary.  I will update as i know
anything.  Thanks all.

Good luck!  I am always a paranoid wreck during calving season!  I wouldn't wish hard calving on anybody.  I had a bullcalf come breech in March.  I was the only one at the farm and I thought I was going to have a heart attack.  The heifer was a past division winner at Wisconsin State Fair.  Luckily my uncle was able to come over to give me a hand.  We pulled and pulled and finally got him out.  Both are fine now but talk about stressful! 

 

[reno1014]

Well, here is the latest They induced on Monday...nothing so he told me that he would do a c-sect. on Tuesday...nothing. This morning they
called me and said that she had dialated and they were trying to pull the calf.  They ended up doing a c-sect and lost the calf.  When I
got there a kid was trying to revive him and the Vet was sewing her up. The calves head was swolen and his tongue was hanging out and also
swolen.  He was a very nice calf.  I dont know exactly how much he weighed but our best guess was 75-80 lbs.  This really stinks, as this was
my sons 4-H project to apply for his Gold Star Award.  I just hope that my heifer will recover and be able to have another baby next year.

 

[simtal]

sounds like your vets cost you a perfectly good calf.  Not trying to be arrogant but I would strongly advise against inducing, no matter what situation. That calf was only 75-80 pounds, far from over due. This is a hard lesson to learn.  sorry to hear about your loss. 

 

[DL]

sounds like your vets cost you a perfectly good calf.  Not trying to be arrogant but I would strongly advise against inducing, no matter what situation. That calf was only 75-80 pounds, far from over due. This is a hard lesson to learn.  sorry to hear about your loss. 

simtal - Inducing a cow or heifer - when the when the breeding date and due date are known - is a safe and effective management tool with few complications in beef cattle - the stimulus for labor in the cow is glucocorticoids - using dexamethasone to induce labor is basically a mimic of the natural process - wouldn't call it arrogant but do not believe your opinion is based on science, fact, or industry experience

reno - sorry about your heifer and your calf

 

[simtal]

sounds like your vets cost you a perfectly good calf.  Not trying to be arrogant but I would strongly advise against inducing, no matter what situation. That calf was only 75-80 pounds, far from over due. This is a hard lesson to learn.  sorry to hear about your loss. 

simtal - Inducing a cow or heifer - when the when the breeding date and due date are known - is a safe and effective management tool with few complications in beef cattle - the stimulus for labor in the cow is glucocorticoids - using dexamethasone to induce labor is basically a mimic of the natural process - wouldn't call it arrogant but do not believe your opinion is based on science, fact, or industry experience

not based on science, fact, or industry experinece? Please.  If inducing is so great, how come many vets advise against it.  Cows have trouble dilating fully and retained placentas.  Any repro professor will tell you that.  The beef industry does this too on a regular basis, yeah right.  Sounds great way to run up vet bill.   

 

[DL]

sounds like your vets cost you a perfectly good calf.  Not trying to be arrogant but I would strongly advise against inducing, no matter what situation. That calf was only 75-80 pounds, far from over due. This is a hard lesson to learn.  sorry to hear about your loss. 

simtal - Inducing a cow or heifer - when the when the breeding date and due date are known - is a safe and effective management tool with few complications in beef cattle - the stimulus for labor in the cow is glucocorticoids - using dexamethasone to induce labor is basically a mimic of the natural process - wouldn't call it arrogant but do not believe your opinion is based on science, fact, or industry experience

not based on science, fact, or industry experinece? Please.  If inducing is so great, how come many vets advise against it.  Cows have trouble dilating fully and retained placentas.  Any repro professor will tell you that.  The beef industry does this too on a regular basis, yeah right.  Sounds great way to run up vet bill.   

and how many vets advise against it? and which repro professor will tell you that? and why do cows have trouble dilating? yes there is some evidence in dairy that there is RP after induction but it is related to hypocalcemia, ketosis, hypomagnesemia etc - I get it - you don't like it - that's fine - don't do it - but don't pretend that you are speaking with any particular knowledge -

 

[harley]

So sorry about your loss!! I hope she breeds back and does good for you next year.

Gonna have to side with Simtal on this one.   Years ago when we first got started in ET big, when the due date rolled around, we put the cows in calving pens and induced.  It didn't take many calving seasons to figure out it's best to let mother nature take it's course.  There was a multitude of problems that seemed to arise far more often in the induced cows than the cows calving naturally in the pasture.  Same kind of cows, same body conditions etc., we all agreed it was happening because of the inducing.  I know there are others that say they have no problems inducing, and I'm happy for them.  I just know that in our herd, after calving hundreds of ET's we only calve a'la naturale' with MUCH greater success than when we induced.  Guess it's not a scientific fact, but if I go back into our calving records and do a report would that make it a scientific fact?  
If the calf's head and toungue were swollen, I'd say they let her go too long before doing the c-section.  They knew she'd been induced and should've been watching her more closely.  

 

[simtal]

thank you harley, I knew I wasn't the only one with the same view point

 

[CAB]

  I don't like to induce cows/heifers, & I'm sure that most of us that frequent this board would have similar opinions about inducing. I have  induced a few during my lifetime because of necessity. I don't have a problem with them inducing the heifer, but what I would have issue with is that if they induced her and then didn't have an experienced person cking her at least once every 4 hours around the clock. According to Reno's description of the calf's swollen head and tongue, I would more than likely be upset myself. That would be my main concern, not wether or not  that they should have induced her or not. That decision, after it was made was water under the bridge and we could have dealt with the aftermath of that decision, but once induced, something's gonna give, usually 24 to 72 hours later.
  Reno, if you don't mind asking, what part of the country do you live? This is just out of curiosity. I was wondering the other day when you first posted this thread up B/C of your comments about how and what the vets asked you to do, I was wondering how much experience the vets in your area have with calving cows. Like I say, just curious. Sorry for your loss. I guess we all have these kinds of things happen and it's part of what makes birthing a miracle in away. Best wishes for your heifer. Sincerely, Brent

 

[reno1014]

I live in West Texas.  I feel in my heart I should have waited and I was okay with that until the phone call late Monday afternoon then I panicked and
sent her to the Vet.  I will NEVER do that again.  I feel very guilty...We almost lost her in the whole ordeal too.  Next time I will wait it out until
she seems to be in distress, and then contact a Vet.  Inexperience on my part and alot of lost sleep from just being worried about her over the last
two weeks.  I just felt that she would be better off there in case something was to go wrong.  I will never leave another heifer in someone elses care
like that again.  I was afraid that if something was to go wrong that I couldnt help her, and I had more confidence in my Vet than myself.  Never again.
I would rather know that I did everything I could and lose a calf than feel guilty about not being able to do a dang thing because I was stupid and took
her to the Vet thinking that they would take care of her the same as I would have....WRONG!  I am not a Vet but I just dont think this was done
right.  And I am beating myself up over it.

 

[oakbar]

Sorry for the loss of your calf, Reno!! 

As far as inducing cows goes, I have to say that I do it quite regularly because I travel on business quite often.  My feeling is that I'd rather have the calf come when I can be here than when I'm a thousand miles away.  I also think it is usually best to let nature run its course, but if I absolutely know the breeding date of the animal, I don't hesitate to induce a cow.  I've had very minimal problems with inducing cows and I do about 5-6 per year.  I would say that my RPs are no more than with the other cows and I haven't had any more problems with these cows breeding back than the others over the last 10 years or so.  I agree that this is one management tool and like any of them, if used judiciously,  it can be very helpful.  I can't comment on the specifics of your situation, but I agree with others that have posted, that once you induce a cow you should be watching her closely.  If she is near term  she can give birth within hours after you induce her.  Even if birth isn't imminent, when you induce her, something is going to happen within 72 hours so you need to be on top of the situation.  If the cow has been having contractions and something hasn't happened within 72 hours, its time to get a good vet involved because there's usually something preventing the birth from taking place and the calf(and cow) may already be at risk.JMHO

 

[harley]

WHOA now reno!  Please don't be so hard on yourself!!  If there's one thing I've learned over a lifetime of caring for animals, it's that you can't read their minds and know 100% what's wrong, nor know exactly what the right action to take in a certain case might be.  ESPECIALLY when you're dealing with heifers, their is no rule book.  You just never know how a scenario is going to play out.  In my opinion YOU did what was right.  You had a heifer, had a little bloody discharge, called a vet and got your heifer there for treatment.  The story could have been that your heifer had half heartedly tried to calve... some heifers are like that.. the calf could have been backwards and by getting her to the vet, you would've saved her from a lot of misery.  If that had been the scenario you'd be feeling a lot better about yourself right now. If there's blame, it's not yours, you did what was best.  I still believe 99% of the time it's best to let mother nature take it's course, we just have to hope experience will teach us to recognize when that 1% of the time has arrived.
So please, don't be so hard on yourself, it's life.  The best of luck with your heifer in the future.
harley

 

[Cowboy]

Morning Rene --I read your post the other day and was concerned for you -- but I refrained from posting as I didn't want to seem like a know it all or get into any undue conversations on here.

Here is what my initial reaction was --

Being a hfr -- everything is first time for them of course, the process involves alot of stretching of tissues that have never been stretched before. As they get close to calving, the cervical plug will start to dissapate -- giving the large amounts of discharge you seen her give off, along with small amounts of blood as the tissues start to dilate and loosen up. Again, a normal process.

There are at least a hundred full time cattlemen and women on this board room, my self included, and we see this all the time. Hfrs are fickle some times, they start and then they stop for a week, they start and stop and start and stop -- but when everything is ready --they WILL calve. I am always there to help a hfr if needed, meybe too much some times.

My first thought on this hfr was -- your vet was entirely over zealous -- I would have never called and had you bring her in simply with the comment there was blood in the discharge -- at least without first seeing her. Secondly, to induce a hfr simply on a piece of paper called a DUE DATE was insane. Due dates are at best a great tool to GUESS when she MAY calve, but that is about it.

If they induced her, then I trully have no idea why in heck they let her loose a calf -- that makes no sense to me. She should have -- and most likely would have -- had that 75-80 pound calf -- if not by her self then with some assistance. The induction process works --yes -- BUT -- if done at the wrong time and incorrectly -- the calf simply is not in the proper position to get out of there. My gut is telling me she was most likely still a week off from having it -- but not being there -- I can't say for sure.

I am really sorry you had to go thru that with her and still lose the baby -- uncalled for at best.

I can only hope your vets of choice now have a few stiches of thier own on thier posterior -- mine for darn sure would have had SEVERAL. hehehe

I didn't write this to further upset DL, so please don't be offended, this was not directed towards you or any of your comments.

I hope every thing goes well with her recovery and you don't have a sterile cow after it's all done!

Best of luck form here on -- Terry

 

[DL]

reno - don't beat yourself up - YOU DID DO EVERYTHING YOU COULD - there are no guarantees and calves die - sometimes it really isn't anybodies fault - don't blame yourself and don't blame your vet - we have all been there - think about how you will do it better next time

consider - pelvic measuring your heifers - lots of show heifers have a pelvis the size of a peanut - they have a heck of a time giving you a live calf - breeding heifers with small pelvic area is never a good idea

pick a known, documented absolutely as close to a certainty calving ease bull for your heifers - don't try for a great one - go f or a live calf - don't go for a fad or a show calf - go for a live calf - Red Angus high number calving ease, low BW high accuracy bulls have worked well for me - others prefer Black Angus

Heifers are more likely to have calving difficulties and have dead calves - it is just a fact - you need to plan in advance

If you AI and know the breeding date and therefore due date - develop a plan on "when you will worry" - discuss with your vet on how you should handle it - I do not let my heifers go over their due date - if they don't calve within 2 days of their due date I induce them - period. Others may disagree but I cannot remember the last time I lost a calf from a heifer. Also my limited experience with the RA bulls - these calves are born early, small, vigorous and full of P&V - and they are nice calves

If your heifers are bull bred have them ultrasounded for age - then you know when they should calve

The fact that the calves face and head were swollen tells me that the calf was too big to get out "naturally" - which tells me that if you had left her at home to deal with it "naturally" the calf would have gained weight daily and when the heifer went into labor you would have had a big mess on your hands and could have lots the heifer as well - you did the right thing - don't let anybody tell you otherwise

I have come to believe that most of the time most of us do the best we can at the time - it doesn't always work out like we want or how we planned - give yourself a break - you deserve it

again sorry for your loss and your sons loss, DL



PS let me add - 1) when inducing you (or your vet) needs to palpate the heifer or cow to make sure they are properly positioned - not doing so is bad 2) 99% of calving occurs within  2 weeks of the due date - trailing off in either direction in a Bell shaped curve - calves born on either side are generally "ready" 3) it is always easy to criticize from afar - in some circles Monday Morning Quarterbacks is a real job