Finding semen on old bulls

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M Bar

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May 21, 2008
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Hope to see you all in Denver, we will be exibiting a bull called M Bar Castlerock 722T.  Investigating the bottom side of his pedigree, you will see in his extended ancestry the following bulls.

Nelco McLead
IDS Duke of Dublin
Marc IV
Mandalong Super Flag
Columbus
Spriro
Highfield Rathcannon


Thought it might trip some of y'alls trigger

Hope you get a chance to stop and look at him, as we feel his is a pretty nice bull
 

justintime

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aj said:
What is the story on four point major? Was he a Canadian and is there semen on him? Was he polled?
This is from an earlier discussion in 2007 about Four Point Major on SP.

Four Point Major was born in 1966, in an era when small framed cattle were the norm. He was bred in the herd of Elmer berg, Four Point Shorthorns,in Northern Alberta. Elmer sold Major to a commercial producer, as a yearling bull and he was turned out in the bush with the cows. He remained there until he was  an 8 year old bull. He had never been haltered or pampered, and ran with the cows year round, yet he matured into a 2600 lb bull. He was discovered by John and Mac Draper, Rothbury Farms, Elgin,  Manitoba when they were literally combing the bush for any descendants of the Nupar herd.( John and Mac were two of the founders of Bar 5 Simmental after they dispersed their Shorthorn herd). Massive Major's dam was Nupar Miss Lea x by Nupar Meteor x> She was about as good a cow as was alive in that day, and would be considered a donor quality female today. She was sired by Nupar Meteor x whop was an amazing bull. The Nupar herd was owned by Frank Fox who was a brother of Jonathon Fox of Justamere Farms fame. Frank Fox believed in bigger framed polled cattle when everyone else was breeding smaller framed horned cattle. About the only people who purchased cattle from the Nupar herd were people who could not afford to buy the more popular smaller framed cattle.

Massive Major was sired by Ball Dee Perfect Count x, a red polled bull that was sired by Carona Perfect x, another red polled bull that was brought into Canada from Carona Farms in Indiana. He sold for a reasonable price, in the Carona sale as he was the biggest bull on offer. Dave Ball said that Carona Farms tried to buy him back after the sale, as they felt he may have been the best bull they had ever raised despite his size.  Carona sold him because they still had his sire and also had a number of daughters of Perfect's sire in their herd.

I remember going to visit the Ball Dee herd near Edmonton, AB when I was 9 or 10 years of age. My mother was raised about 5 miles from there. Dave Ball had a big herd of over 300 cows. All were polled . I remember this visit very well, as Dave offered my dad the entire herd for $250 per cow.Dave Ball was having some health problems and was wanting to sell the cows. My dad was not sure if he should accept his offer, as he was not sure if polled cattle would ever become popular, and these cows were bigger framed than he was used to looking at. Today, I would give my eye teeth to have this set of cows.

When the Rothbury herd was dispersed, Massive Major was 10 years old. Many breeders wanted to buy him but were afraid that a 10 year old bull was not a good investment. We teamed up with 9 other breeders and purchased him for $10,000. The runner up was a firm from South Dakota. The first thing we did was collect semen on him and then we rotated him through the group to breed naturally. We had him in our pasture twice before he died of a twisted gut at age 14. At 14, he could still walk faster than the average person could. He would walk across a half mile pasture in a few minutes. He had perfect feet as big as dinner plates and they never were trimmed yet looked like they had been  just done. He was still a 2600 lb bull when he died. I always felt that he sired much better females than he did bulls. His females were super thick and had lots of volume. They were great mother cows, with good udders. His sons were OK however we never had a bull as good as he was. I have sold more semen from Four Point Major in the past year than  I did in the 30 years before now. Major stamped almost every calf I ever saw with the white spot in the flank. Major was a very amazing bull. I do not know of any Major semen left in the US and everything here is not exportable now. I am going to flush to him this spring.
 

justintime

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Here is a picture of Four Point Major that was taken at our place when he was 11 years old.
 

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clifflem

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Another breeder I remember advertised beef bulls in the 70's was Dr. Nold at Weston Shorthorns in the Dakotas.  He had a bull named Weston Shamrock that they ran several ads on.  I remember Garris or Arden Prehiem told me once that they had gone to a state field day at Nold's and they had the bull on display and had dyed him green.  I thought that was an interesting concept to get peoples attention and get name recognition. 
When we started with Shorthorns, the duals were the hot item.  Graham's in Minnesota had Clark, Columbus,and some other bulls they were promoting.  They advertised Clark as producing over 70% heifer calves.  Robert Dahl, Palo Acres Shorthorns, at Gruver, TX had a bull named Spiro that came from Grahams.  He had a really good set of females out of him.  He used some of the Irish bulls on them.  He had Explosion, AF Dividend 932, a Stan Harper bull they called Pepsi, and another Irish bull or two they used.  I remember stopping at Dahl's in the early 80's and they had just got a set of the Irish import cows out of quarantine.  They were long footed and stiff from being on concrete, but were a nice set of cattle.  This was probably in 83 or 84 and was some of the last full Irish cattle imported into the U.S.
 

r.n.reed

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I' ve got a Weston Shamrock grandaughter in my heifer pen,she's a little ''green'' but is going to make a good cow I think.
 

aj

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I hope to get up on the hill in Denver to see jit's leader 21 bull and mbars bull. I was thinking about bidding on a couple of Jungels bulls Saturday. Does anyone know the pha status of Vortec I really haven't seen it for sure.
 

aj

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Wasn't their a Theimans from Missouri or somewhere that bred some notables in the good ole days?
 

clifflem

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Theiman's bred TPS Cornet Leader 21st.  They were still in business a few years ago, but I've been out of the loop for a while so don't know if they still are or not.

a.j., let us know how the cattle look in Denver.  Mbar's bull sounds interesting, lots of good older genetics behind him.
 

M Bar

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Cliff,
      We snapped a pic after we got done clipping last weekend.  He is weighing 1350# at 13 months old.  Hopefully the attachment will work
 

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justintime

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M Bar... how is your bull bred? He looks like a Sherman tank.

After last night I have given up on taking cattle to Denver. Close to two feet of snow over night, on top of all we had before. It is a real mess!! I hope to get down myself for the show for two or three days. It will take me until then just to dig out. I was hoping for snow this winter, I guess I got my wish. We have more snow now than we have had in the last 4- 5 years combined.
 

MYT Farms

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M Bar said:
Cliff,
      We snapped a pic after we got done clipping last weekend.  He is weighing 1350# at 13 months old.  Hopefully the attachment will work

Wow. That is one nice bull! He looks like a growth machine. I'll bet he's pretty thick, too.
 

M Bar

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Here is his pedigree




                    JM Vortec

K Kim Castlerock

                    Trump Daughter




                      Red Riders Drive                                                                                              SRS Instant Replay

Riders Georgina 850                  Ecodale Topdraft                                          HS Instant Enticer
                               
                        Wankels Gerogina                                  Deer Trail Awesome
                                                                  WMF Gerogina 281                                                  Nelco McClead
                                                                                                                      Fieser's Hi Competitor
                                                                                      WMF Georgina U82  (one really good cow that we had a long time ago)
                                                                                                                                          IDS Duke of Dublin
                                                                                                                    Ellsway Georgina
                                                                                                                                                    Mandalong Super Flag
                                                                                                                                            Ellsway Georgina



When I worked for Wal Mar Farms, the Georgina family was really stout, easy doing, and pretty.  We shipped some cows to Eddie Grathwohl to play with and they sold a heifer (WMF Georgina 281) to Wankels.  They sold the Wankels Georgina to Dean Farms and I bought the 850 cow back from them at their dispersal.  If memory serves correctly, I gave $1,300 for the cow.  She is now 11 years old and will be calving to our Waukaru Gold Mine 6049 bull.  We then plan to flush her for the rest of her days.  We partnered with Kevin Kimmerling on a flush on the 850 cow two years ago.  He flushed her and hand bred her to Castlerock, and that's the bull in the picture.
 

Davis Shorthorns

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WOW Troy that bull is looking GREAT!!!!  and JIT that really sucks I was wanting to get a look at those leader 21st calves.  Good luck on making it down.
 

clifflem

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Troy, the bull looks good.  I remember most of the cattle in his pedigree.  Looks like he could work for a lot of programs.  Good luck in Denver.
 

M Bar

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Cliff,
    You can come out and get on your knees for old times sake.  Last time I saw you, it was after Louisville? about 1987 when you stopped at the house for a tire change in the rain/sleet/snow.  You remember that nice evening don't you?
 

justintime

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Troy... interesting pedigree.I see his dam goes back to Ellsway Georgina, who was one of the heifers we had in our Denver display in 1984.She was one of the first daughters of IDS Duke of Dublin and she was part of the display we had when we took Duke and 13 of his calves and displayed them in front of the Exchange Building in the yards. Twig was the first person to purchase one of the Duke calves that year, and he selected Georgina and he gave us a pretty good bit of coin for her. When we left Denver, we had sold all but 10 of the 13 calves and we had those three priced for the guys wearing alligator boots. We really didn't want to sell them, but had a price if someone wanted to pay it. Hope to meet you in Denver!
 

Dale

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Feb 13, 2007
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Harold Thieman of Concordia, MO,  bred our first polled bull, TPS Coronet Keystone, that we purchased in 1970.  His father was Louis.  Harold was a master salesman; we followed with TPS Coronet Catalyst 45th x a couple of years later.  Most of their cattle were easy keepers and their cows were large.  The type was changing, and they did not follow the trend of extreme frames and one-gutted cattle.  On the other hand, if you were looking for another Leader 21st, he was not typical of their herd. 

The ASA lists a Jamie Thieman still in Concordia.  Is that a grandchild of Harold?
 
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