Hello Shorthorn Breeders

[aj]

Thats whats throwing me off.....black has always been the dominate color. Is this a deal that stands genetic understanding on its ear or is it some kind of translation of description misunderstanding.

 

[justintime]

I have also heard of black fullblood Salers animals in France. I have also seen a roan fullblood. There was a roan fullblood Salers shown at Agribition several years ago, and I talked to the owner about this coat color. He told me that it was rare however it did appear from time to time in fullblood herds in France. The roan fullblood I saw was a very nice strawberry roan. It didn't just have a few white hairs in it's coat.

 

[OH Breeder]

Thats whats throwing me off.....black has always been the dominate color. Is this a deal that stands genetic understanding on its ear or is it some kind of translation of description misunderstanding.

why is it any different than the beginning of red angus. They are fullblood and yet they appeared red? I am not an angus historian by any means. And if my statement is off please educate me. But I don't see any difference in the black saler's and red angus deal?

 

[aj]

My head hurts. The Black angus were considered pure......the color was black......it was found out that if you match two ressesive red parents together.....one out of four matings was a red offspring. I have been told that the red gene or whatever it is was a mutation OR there was some shorthorn blood introduced to the gene pool somewhere along the line. If the salers were pure when founded......by (in theory) two red individuals. There would be red on red on red on red. How was the black gene introduced? The red gene mutated to Black somewhere along the line.OR the was some funny stuff introduced somewhere(like Angus). Or were the first two Salers a black and a red parent and blacks culled out of the equation? Can a color gene mutate from red to black and black to red? Or was there funny stuff stuck in there somehow?

 

[aj]

Can a homozygous polled bull bred to homozygous polled cow throw a horned calf. Only by a mutation I assume or a neighbors bull made a visit.

 

[aj]

The color black can't go hidden cause it dominate. The red gene could be propagated......hidden because its recessive to Black. Black can't be hidden because one copy makes a black individual. Unless it is a shade deal or unless Red is dominant to red in the Saler's breed only.

 

[frostback]

Wild type gene.



http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/red-calf-has-a-black-gene!!-didn't-think-it-was-possible-but/msg48624/#msg48624
Try to copy and paste it into the search bar thing, not sure why I cant get the link to work.

 

[RyanChandler]

Hold your ground, AJ.  A breed that has a dominant red gene and a potential roaning gene? C'Mon Maaaan

 

[aj]

Slept like a baby last night after winning this debate. steer planet grin! She likes me....she likes me

 

[EaglesNest]

The color black can't go hidden cause it dominate. The red gene could be propagated......hidden because its recessive to Black. Black can't be hidden because one copy makes a black individual. Unless it is a shade deal or unless Red is dominant to red in the Saler's breed only.

I am buy no means a genetics expert, but I will say this. When I raised Salers I saw firsthand  a black whitefaced(hereford angus x) heifer bred to a homozygous red Salers bull before it had to be titled homo red/black. The resulting calf was Salers red with whiteface. I am guessing since the red was present in hereford cross genetics followed by introduction of more red genetics from Salers that was deciding factor of the coat color.

 

[aj]

I would agree.

 

[Okotoks]

Even though black is because of a dominant gene in most cattle I had been told that the black in the fullblood black salers was a recessive gene as well. Whether it was the wild type, a different black gene or a myth I don't know. There were definitely fullblood black salers though. Black in horses is a recessive gene except to Chestnut so I don't see why there couldn't be the same in cattle.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Genetics for coat colors in horse works differently than for cattle. No base for discussion, same for horns on sheep were a sex influence occur with males being horned and females polled in most breeds. Different species, different genetics rules.

Will rain on wet....black face is dominante gene...black is dominante under red (until now). A black HerXAA mated with red salers will easily produce red calves as red factor can come from Hereford, salers and AA as well.

Will try get more details about wild gene.

 

[frostback]

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