how to tell if bull is a calving ease bull

[vanridge]

We are definetly going to line up some visits, there are a few others with bulls to sell right now.  I always find bull buying a bit stressful because a bull has so much influence in your herd.  It could propel you forward or set you back in one season. Thank you all for your input, and if there is any other tips please keep them coming. JIT, what you say about the experience thing is definetely true, I wish we had more of it. That is why a purebred breeder really needs to be honest, open and upfront with his customers, so people like us will want to come back and buy from them. The only reason we are considering this option instead of going back to our previous bull breeder is because we are a little worried that the bull we would like to buy for our herd in the spring will be way out of our price league.  The market seems to be very strong right now.  And I've mentioned it before but there are some really nice, helpful people in the shorthorn industry who we enjoy doing business with and I hope we can find a few like that in the black angus industry as well.

 

[RyanChandler]

Birth weight birth weight birth weight.  Throw the low accuracy epds out the window and check the actual birthweights 2 and 3 generations back.  Generations of low 70lb bws don't throw hundred lbers.   I've pulled dozens of 90-95lb calves.  I've never pulled one <70.

In my experience, cattle that have the elongated muley head have several common characteristics. They tend to be a hard doing, flat sided, large bw, hard calving, high maintenance, doll house type.

Ohhhh Chandler, so we should throw out all epds on younger or low accuracy animals?  Maybe you should call the all the different associations and tell them to forget the epd thing until the specefic animal has at least 5,000 progeny under their belt (in each specific category)- also they should be used on animals from Texas, Missouri, Michigan, Montana, California and Florida just to assure that they produce consistencey on a variety of animals in a variety of enviroments.  Actual birthweights, fluctuate a fair amount over the course of an animals life, from year to year, from enviroment to enviroment on same animal.  Vanridge also did say he wanted a middle of the road animal (for cows and heifers).  

I'm not suggesting throwing out low acc epds on the individual but I don't think one can put much weight on an epd that's calculated from a pedigree thats highest acc is .5 two or three generations back.

 

[OH Breeder]

Here"s TPS Leader 21st....look at his head.


Then look at Trump's Head


I prefer the Traditional Looking shorthorn head like on the older shorthorn bulls.

 

[nate53]

Chandler I will totally agree with you to a point!

OH Breeder, I see what you're talking about on more traditional Shorthorn heads.  I don't really see any problem with any of the heads that you posted - I would say I like the Leader bull the best. Is Trumps head bigger and longer?

I guess this Amerifax female's head would be ideal for me.

 

[OH Breeder]

Nate

I like the wide set eyes on the LEader genetics. I have a direct daughter of leader and a Proud leader bull from Ohlde. Both have the same head as 21st. The Trump genetics tend to have larger more elongated heads. Maybe I am too retro. I just like those rounder easy feeding type cattle.

 

[vanridge]

Someone told us  to avoid shorthorn that can eat grain out of a boot, they are much harder keeping cattle. We have to agree with that statement with what we see in our herd. Angus don't seem to have such a variation in head shape though. Personally, I do like some width between the eyes. If you look at clubby bulls they usually have more feminine heads, and more calving ease problems as a general rule. (please don't shoot me!) 

 

[nate53]

If you look at clubby bulls they usually have more feminine heads, and more calving ease problems as a general rule. (please don't shoot me!) 

Yes most of the clubby's I've seen have more feminine heads, but I wouldn't call them mule like (maybe trump looks a little muleish ;D).  THe calving problems might have less to do with their feminine heads and more to do with those front shoulders, hips, and all those small b.w.'s.  Please don't tell me all (in general) feminine headed animals are harder calving and harder doing, with our blacks I would say it's the complete opposite.  JMO
I couldn't get my shooting cartoon to load so I guess I'll have to let you go!

 

[vanridge]

If you look at clubby bulls they usually have more feminine heads, and more calving ease problems as a general rule. (please don't shoot me!) 

I couldn't get my shooting cartoon to load so I guess I'll have to let you go!

(lol) Maybe we should post more pictures of muley heads and feminine heads to see the difference.