I don't understand why; Can someone please explain ? !

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heatherleblanc

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Jan 2, 2012
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LindseysMaine_Angus said:
XYZ said:
Just one thing to take into consideration, a lot of people who have black calves that have white bellies, flanks, or any markings, will just dye the animal completely solid black.

Can you tell if an animal has been dyed?

Well since most of the solid black ones are dyed as well (I do it to cover up the red tinge in the hair of my black calf), I personally can't tell the difference between the ones that are just dyed to make them JET black, and the ones that are dyed to cover up the white.
 

vc

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My boys started with commercial Angus, they were in the middle of their class, and we expected to be there. We bought a little better calves each year, we did not spend a bunch of money just got better at selecting steers that would be good fat steers, and we learned how to feed them as we went. The last 2 years my son had Champion 4H steer, he did not cheat, but he learned how to show, groom and feed a steer so it was at 12:00 when we got to the fair. We never got grand but we did stand right there with them, several times. The one family that wins most of the time are close Friends of ours and I know how much both of their kid worked, they earned what they got.
As far as black over color, it seems out in California everyone wants a good colored steer, which there is less of than the black (just more black calves to pick from) I could pay twice as much for a colored calf than I would for an identical black, I'd take the black calf for half the money every time.
I can't tell you how many kids I see selecting calves by color, baldy or sire, at the sells, we always picked the best calf for the money we could color and sire did not come into play. My son always wanted a baldy but we never did find one that fit our needs.
We have had colored calves win our fair several times in the last 10 years but they were real good colored calves, had they gone to state fair, they would have been standing at the top there as well.
 

jd438

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When I got started I thought the very same thing, as I didn't have a family with a background in showing beef cattle.  I remember saying I have these red calves and I am getting beat by black calves, so I just had to have a black calf.  I got beat just the same.  It took a few years for me to figure out that a well fed steer with above average muscle and look will usually do ok at a county fair.  Some fairs have much higher competition and you have to make decision if you want to play that game or not.  Like it has been said is there are just more black cattle, so odds are they would be more good ones.  One thing to remember is hybrid vigor in a crossbred animal is hard to beat in terms of performance, look, muscle, and ability to finish at proper weights is hard to beat.  Watch who is winning, go to shows and watch what wins.  I bet more often than not they are cattle that are fed well, presented well, and are acceptable in the marketplace, especially in market classes where all breeds are lumped together.
 

farmboy

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For once I agree with this guy ^^^

They're going to pocket your money and use it on top of their funds to get a calf that they know will at least beat yours.
 

willow

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Jan 8, 2011
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Lindsey, try not to be discouraged by what you see going on around you whether you think it is right or wrong.  Enjoy what you are doing and put in the hard work and one day if luck is in your corner and you have made the right decisions when it comes to the care of your animal it will pay off.  I don't live in your neck of the woods, but I always think of a little something I was told about color and livestock...If they are real good it doesn't matter what color they are.  I believe that to a certain extent.  Also, I believe it is hard for these pure bred animals (Hereford, Red Angus, Black Angus, etc.) to compete with a crossbred animal whether you are talking steers, pigs or whatever.  The best piece of advice in 4-H or any other aspect in your life is don't get involved in the drama and trash talk.  Rise above that kind of behavior.  Just because someone wins year after year doesn't always mean they are a cheater.  I hope you have a really nice time at your county show.  My county fair days were some of the best I can remember!
 

J2F

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Very well said <hero> <hero>
willow said:
Lindsey, try not to be discouraged by what you see going on around you whether you think it is right or wrong.  Enjoy what you are doing and put in the hard work and one day if luck is in your corner and you have made the right decisions when it comes to the care of your animal it will pay off.  I don't live in your neck of the woods, but I always think of a little something I was told about color and livestock...If they are real good it doesn't matter what color they are.  I believe that to a certain extent.  Also, I believe it is hard for these pure bred animals (Hereford, Red Angus, Black Angus, etc.) to compete with a crossbred animal whether you are talking steers, pigs or whatever.  The best piece of advice in 4-H or any other aspect in your life is don't get involved in the drama and trash talk.  Rise above that kind of behavior.  Just because someone wins year after year doesn't always mean they are a cheater.  I hope you have a really nice time at your county show.  My county fair days were some of the best I can remember!
 

shorthornmn

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Dec 22, 2011
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chambero said:
You are from Michican, correct?

First of all let's look at it from a commercial stand point - contrary to what a lot of people will tell you on here - the "market" prefers black.  Nobody cares if red/white cattle breeders like it, that's the way it is.  So, if a judge is more commercial oriented, if he is doing what he's supposed to and two calves are equal in all other aspects, he should be favoring black calves.  That's what the vast majority of the feedlots want.  Using Herefords for example, sales of commercial Hereford cattle have gotten so bad they are actually pretty hard to find.  One of the most famous of all time - Lone Star Hereford Ranch near where I live - gave up the ghost and got rid of the last of their Hereford's a couple of weeks ago.

The tendency toward favoratism toward black isn't as strong in the south as it is in your part of the world.  You are at ground zero for black cattle in the northern U.S.  From a practical standpoint, there are so many more of them to pick from in your part of the world that statistically there are going to be more good black ones than colored animals. 

Finally, as an exhibitor, it's not your place to complain about or change what judges want.  If you want to do well, you have to listen to judges/leaders/etc and have the kind of calves that they do want in your area.  Also, at the absolute highest levels of competition, there is not nearly the amount of cheating/rule breaking/etc that everyone wants to think.  And there certainly isn't at a county fair.  If you truly despise competietion, why are you even showing animals?  That's the whole point of showing.  If you don't enjoy competietion, you'll never enjoy showing.  Become involved with some other aspect of a cattle project. 

My guess is you don't really despise it, you are frustrated you didn't do well.  Good advice doesn't involve telling someone what they want to hear, it involves telling them the truth.  My advice for next year - go buy the best black steer you can afford and do your best with him.  Enjoy your project whether you win or not.  But don't fight an uphill battle by trying to go against what the judges prefer in your area. 

And finally, I don't think there has ever been a calf that won a county fair that someone didn't accuse the winner of cheating in some fashion or form.  That's called gossiping and whining.  Just stop it!  It's not becoming of anyone to whine.  If you really believed it, go report it to the show officials. 

I wrote the original post before I saw some of your additional information.  One of the biggest mistakes you can make is having too many show calves.  The last place calf will eat just as much feed as the first place.  If your goal is really to do well at your county fair - get one calf.  Take the money you'd spend buying the others (I'm guessing at market price) and feeding them and you could go buy a really good steer somewhere.  If you can spend $1,000 above market price, you can usually find a pretty good one somewhere.  Listen to your aunt.  If doing well at the show is not your primary goal - that's fine to.  But don't get down about doing poorly and gripe about it.  You have to be focused and concentrate on your primary goal with anything in life.

I am not a Hereford person by any means, but when I see a good Hereford I'll like them. You say that Herefords are hard to find?? Then I say that you are looking in all the wrong places for them because when I was at Shorthorn Junior Nationals, and the week following that was the Hereford Junior National Show and it had 1600 head entered which was 2x the number of head a the Shorthorn Show. I'm just saying that they are far from a disappearing breed.
 

chambero

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I like Herefords and love showing Hereford steers, but the big commercial oriented Hereford ranches are absolutely dwindling.  Prices for Hereford bulls at real sales arent nearly as high as comparable Angus or European breed sales.  I hate that its happening, but it is.  Junior show numbers have little correlation.
 

shorthornmn

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Dec 22, 2011
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You are extremely correct. Junior show numbers have nothing to do with "big commerical" operations. We are talking show cattle and if there are a large amount of junior exhibitors that means that in the near future those large numbers of juniors will be adults and show cattle breeders, at least some of them.  That's what I'm talking about. Nothing to do with commercial operations. There are multiple factors as to why those aren't working out.
 

OLD WORLD SHORTIE

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millionbovinemarch.jpg


Just to raise awareness for the OP
 
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