If I could start all over again I would......?

[Mill Iron A]

I myself have really enjoyed this thread. I have been doing a lot of thinking on how to go out on my own so I am taking everything that is being said and really evaluating it. Right or wrong I love hearing everyone's opinion as it helps me evaluate every aspect of what I am doing.

 

[aj]

I think......the worst thing a buyer can do.......is buy something from someone cause they or nice. Or maybe better said yet.....I want to fit in so I'll buy cattle from John. Or I want to be friends with Frank so I will buy a heifer from Frank. It seems like to me that this is 80% of the registered cattle deal. I think people want to drop names...so they buy a heifer at David Hotshots sale. Then at Denver....they will fit in.....they can drop names.....walk up to or have a drink with David shot shot......because you bought a heifer from him. From a buyers stand point I think this is a terrible business model. I always try and and take emotion emotion out of a cattle buying decision. Buy cattle cause they are what you want and because you respect the breeder.....not because he had a dance and free drinks the night before the sale. The average lifespan for registered breeders is what 7 years long? Thats just about enough time to buy some friends put a herd together and then get bored.....been there and done that.....and sell out. jmo

 

[aj]

I would agree with x-bar......even though he is a socialist......it is insane to give some cattle rep 20,000 $'s and say buy me something. It may work out but you probably won't make money. It will buy you love and maybe even a purple ribbon......but the middle man most likely took out 20%.

 

[justintime]

XBAR....against my better judgement......It would appear we agree on something. Yes, people who are known to be dishonest and exhibit all of the clinical signs, are indeed untrustworthy.

As for having no skin in the game; my partner and I have travelled thousands of miles since the summer and have invested just under 70K in the past 100 days on seedstock for our modest re-start. 34K USD alone on December 1st for a heifer calf.

Not sure why you are such an angry guy but directing it at others on these Boards isn't the solution. JMO

Your dishonest claims about the white Liar  (lol) bull being heifer safe puts you in the untrustworthy category then.  Deceptive marketing practices anger me. 

If I had it to do over again,  I would never tell a sale rep how much I was willing to pay for an animal.  That would be my #1 advice- never let someone you don't know bid for you.  The biggest mistake you can make in this industry is to ASSUME that just because someone 'looks like you, walks and talks like you, hates Obama like you, and goes to the same 'type' Church as you' that they're good, HONEST people!

I don't think anyone on here knows for sure that the White Liar bull is 100% heifer safe.... or any bull for that matter. Part of the ease of delivery is going to come from the heifer's genetics. I am not one who puts all my faith in a bulls EPDs either. If I was a small breeder and wanted a bull to breed both cows and heifers, I would possibly give the bull a try based on his low BW along with his general body shape ( head, shoulder and shoulder angle mainly).

I would have no idea how many cattle I have bought by giving an order to a sales rep, over the years, but it would if I had to guess, my guess would be in the hundreds. Have some of these reps ripped me off by making sure my bid has be used in entirety? I expect that would be true. Have I been able to buy some cattle for less money than I have given them?  The answer would be many times so. I don't get hung up if I pay what I gave as a bid, as I was willing to pay that much or I would not have offer that much in my bid. I see this as not much different as my asking the seller what price he wants and if I am in agreement I will tell him I am willing to pay that much for the animal. Personally, I think that people who do not trust anyone, have a very long life ahead of them. I certainly would hate to live like that. A couple years ago, I gave an owner of all the cattle in a sale a bid of $3500 for cow he was selling. He asked me if I wanted to give the bid to a sales rep and I told him that I had known him for many years and trusted his judgment. He phoned me after the sale and told me I had purchased the cow for $2800. He said he thought I had got a real bargain...and by her production here, I certainly believe I did!  The bull calf she was carrying bought $4000 , and her second calf ( also a bull) is one of the very best in this years calf crop. I have also flushed her once and have some ET calves due next spring and some sold to Scotland from her.

I have acted as a sales rep at many sales for many years, and I have seen lots of different things happen in regards to bids I have received. I do hate it when the animal brings exactly what I received for a bid. I had that happen at two sales this fall, and it was almost like someone could read my mind as to what my bid was. I never disclose to anyone what I have received and sometimes it just happens to land on the bid I have got from someone.  I find most people who know me, are very trusting in regards to giving me bids. A few years ago, I received a phone call from a relatively new breeder who was wanting to buy some purebred breeding stock. He told me he would give me $38,000 and I was to buy whatever I thought would be good for him and his family building their herd. I told him that while I appreciated his bid and his trust in me, that I wanted some indication how many cattle he would expect to buy with this amount of money. He said that he trusted my judgment and if he only got 4 head,  he would not be upset. I don't think I have ever researched a set of sale cattle as much as I did before this sale, and I eliminated any animals that I did not think would work at any price, and I then set maximum bids on every other animal in the sale. I ended up getting 5 head for him for $17,800 and did not spend the rest of his bid.
On another occasion, I received a bid from a breeder in Western Canada  for a bull selling in a sale. He asked me if I thought he would be able to buy the bull for $8000? I told him that I felt he would be able to buy this bull for considerably less than his bid. This man then said, that I was to ensure that he did not buy the bull too cheap. When I asked him what he meant, he said that the worst thing that could happen was if he paid $1800 for a herd bull. He said he could not afford to use a cheap priced bull in his breeding program as it would make his offspring harder to sell. I haven't run into many people like this guy, but I have always remembered his mentality on this subject.
I firmly believe that if you do your own business in a trustworthy manner, that it will come back to you many times over. I would say that if you can't live with your decision to give a bid to a sales rep, that you had better only buy cattle at sales you can attend or bid on the phone or internet. I do this as well, but there are also occasions when I can't make any of these methods work and I never hesitate to give a sale rep my bid if I am interested in an animal. I expect that if I attended the sale in person, that I would probably bid higher than the bid I gave anyways. Oftentimes, I am asked if I would be upset if they had to bid a couple more times in order to buy an animal. I always tell them that I am not there to see the animal for myself, so I am putting my trust in their judgment. I can only think of a few cases where I bought for more price than I originally gave.
Trust is a two way street. Personally, there are some breeders with excellent cattle, that I would never buy from.  Usually, it is because I do not like their honesty and ethics and there are always good cattle available from other breeders that will work as well.

 

[BTDT]

I am not going to get into a "pee-ing" contest about this, but thought maybe x-bar misunderstood my original post.
I will not do business with someone that I feel is dishonest because I figure if they will lie about one thing, steal something, misrepresent something, then they will do that about their cattle. I do not need to justify someone else's lies when they find their way into my herd so I avoid it all together.
I know of a red breeder who has wrecked several breeding seasons of others because the bull didn't DNA or the heifer that someone bought 3 years ago does not DNA now for a donor, etc.  Why buy cattle from an operation that every time you see that prefix you wonder if the pedigree is right, or if it is a "purebred" or "crossbred"?  I would rather avoid them all together and not have to clean up their mess from my herd.  But I guess by your logic, that is why they are still in business and get away with cheating, lying and misrepresenting their cattle. That is fine. It is your choice.  Seriously, I have no issue with you doing business with them, just as long as you can sleep at night, so can I.

I do not care if they attend the same church, or have the same political affiliation, as long as they share my core values, I am good.  I assume no one is honest, until they prove it to me.  Would I EVER do business with a pedophile, murderer, rapist, or thief? No. NEVER. I do not care how good their cattle are. There is plenty of good cattle out there that are owned and sold by honest people.

aj - I do not buy livestock from people just because they are nice. They have to have nice livestock also.  I know some very nice people who raise very different type of cattle than I like, so while I am very good friends with them, I do not purchase livestock from them; and we are still friends.

I like to do business with people who represent my values.  (I would not buy a calendar from petta due to the fact that my money would be supporting their cause, but I can tell you I have purchased plenty of calendars, candles, fruit and casseroles from 4-H, FFA and youth church groups of all types). 
If I can do that and sleep well at night then I am doing well. As long as you can say the same, all is well with both of our programs.

 

[knabe]

get into politics

http://www.newsmax.com/newswidget/hunting-fishing-crime-government/2013/12/18/id/542648?promo_code=EACE-1&utm_source=GatewayPundit&utm_medium=nmwidget&utm_campaign=widgetphase1

 

[aj]

I would be born in Africa......cause the USA is such a terrible place to live.

 

[BTDT]

I would be born in Africa......cause the USA is such a terrible place to live.

I hope that was sarcastic.  If not, I would suggest you call an airline, as many different ones fly to Africa every day.  I am guessing you might even get some help packing.

 

[knabe]

I would be born in Africa......cause the USA is such a terrible place to live.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/12/the_road_to_genocide_is_paved_with_liberal_intentions.html

Most people would never guess it, but the arrival of whites in SA dates back further than that of the ancestors of many of the nation's blacks. The first Dutch settlers (who became known as "Boers" or "Afrikaners") landed on Africa's shores in 1652, while many blacks in SA arrived later. After all, since life in "racist" SA was vastly preferable to that in surrounding nations, it had long been attractive to black migrants. In fact, due to this factor and blacks' higher birthrates, SA's black demographic has increased 920 percent since 1913; this is the main reason the nation's population increased from 6 million a century ago to 52 million today, as the white demographic increased only 3.3 million during that period.


as a world, if we set the precedent that whites should leave south africa or die because they are not authentic enough, should blacks leave america as well as whites?  there were probably no humans before kennewick man in "america" and the indians potentially slaughtered them, there really is no "ownership" of america.  ones desires are always a slippery slope of circular logic that when carried to their absolutist conclusion are always hypocritical and self eliminating.

birth rates alone are insufficient to "preserve" founding ideals.  they almost always are eliminated from policies from within allowing illegal and legal immigration as things were set up perceived to be better and rather than that scenario being replicated elsewhere which requires balls, people would simply rather go where it is and ruin it because it isn't enough like where they came from.  people are simply in general incapable of understanding this.

but back to origin of post. the reason i would get into politics is to help even the playing field so that laws ensured equal opportunity and end subsidies and price controls on commodities so that land prices and regulation were not so insidious so that commerce could thrive rather than being eliminated through monopolistic control by the government, more irony, people say they hate monopolies, but all they do is mandate them.