Is it possible......

[TXSimmy]

That you can get a heifer that will never break to lead? I have an earlier post about one that we are having major problems with and she will not lead.  She will lead to water and back to the pen but if you try and lead her somewhere else she will not budge.  We have hooked her up to the truck and very easily tried to get her to walk and all she will do is hunker down until she finally lays down.  We are now keeping her tied all during the day and night and going out to take her to water and feed and then trying to lead her. Like I said she will lead to the water and feed but no where else. I believe in the nice and easy approach but my patience is wearing thin. It has been 3 months and I believe she gets worse every day. She will also follow the other show heifer when leading so we have separated them and now the other heifer is starting to not lead. We also purchased a supper lead (the calm one) and this does nothing to the first heifer and makes the second heifer worse. Just trying to figure out if I should just cut my losses on this one and get rid of her, or maybe hooking her up to a donkey.

 

[AdrienneHilbrands]

Not sure if you have the availability of another farm or place that you could bring her to for a day to work with her at, but we've had that work for us in the past.  The key being it's worked with animals that are just plain stubborn but not wild.  Seems like if we can spend an entire day with them at some location other than their home stomping grounds (so some place that is completely unfamiliar to them) it has helped out quite a bit.  For us we can take them to the brother-in-laws place so we have the ability to work with them there throughout the day just like at home; leading them to the wash rack, leading them back to get dried, maybe leading them to a chute to get clipped on, leading them to feed, water, etc. We don't spend the entire day focusing on that one animal but just periodically moving them around to different locations throughout the day and then leaving them tied up high at one place or low at another.  Kind of like as if they were spending a day at a show... I do realize that not everyone has a place like this you could go to where you could work with them like this but I think just getting them away from home and to some unfamiliar location and then working with them on leading from one place to another could work just as well.  Of course I've heard that a good donkey works really well too!!!! 

 

[Steve123]

We have used a hotshot on one like that and it only took a couple of buzzes.

 

[DL]

That you can get a heifer that will never break to lead? I have an earlier post about one that we are having major problems with and she will not lead.  She will lead to water and back to the pen but if you try and lead her somewhere else she will not budge.  We have hooked her up to the truck and very easily tried to get her to walk and all she will do is hunker down until she finally lays down.  We are now keeping her tied all during the day and night and going out to take her to water and feed and then trying to lead her. Like I said she will lead to the water and feed but no where else. I believe in the nice and easy approach but my patience is wearing thin. It has been 3 months and I believe she gets worse every day. She will also follow the other show heifer when leading so we have separated them and now the other heifer is starting to not lead. We also purchased a supper lead (the calm one) and this does nothing to the first heifer and makes the second heifer worse. Just trying to figure out if I should just cut my losses on this one and get rid of her, or maybe hooking her up to a donkey.

Really?? I am almost speechless at this post - Have you considered the welfare of the heifer?? You are keeping her tied up all day and all night (an animal designed to graze), you have hooked her up to a truck, you have taken a herd animal and apparently separated her from herd mates and you are losing your patience!! Really?? Not every animal is destined to lead and show - do the heifer a favor and find her a home where someone wants an cow

 

[doc-sun]

That you can get a heifer that will never break to lead? I have an earlier post about one that we are having major problems with and she will not lead.  She will lead to water and back to the pen but if you try and lead her somewhere else she will not budge.  We have hooked her up to the truck and very easily tried to get her to walk and all she will do is hunker down until she finally lays down.  We are now keeping her tied all during the day and night and going out to take her to water and feed and then trying to lead her. Like I said she will lead to the water and feed but no where else. I believe in the nice and easy approach but my patience is wearing thin. It has been 3 months and I believe she gets worse every day. She will also follow the other show heifer when leading so we have separated them and now the other heifer is starting to not lead. We also purchased a supper lead (the calm one) and this does nothing to the first heifer and makes the second heifer worse. Just trying to figure out if I should just cut my losses on this one and get rid of her, or maybe hooking her up to a donkey.

Really?? I am almost speechless at this post - Have you considered the welfare of the heifer?? You are keeping her tied up all day and all night (an animal designed to graze), you have hooked her up to a truck, you have taken a herd animal and apparently separated her from herd mates and you are losing your patience!! Really?? Not every animal is destined to lead and show - do the heifer a favor and find her a home where someone wants an cow

she is not your heifer dl. you are not the cow police.

 

[DL]

That you can get a heifer that will never break to lead? I have an earlier post about one that we are having major problems with and she will not lead.  She will lead to water and back to the pen but if you try and lead her somewhere else she will not budge.  We have hooked her up to the truck and very easily tried to get her to walk and all she will do is hunker down until she finally lays down.  We are now keeping her tied all during the day and night and going out to take her to water and feed and then trying to lead her. Like I said she will lead to the water and feed but no where else. I believe in the nice and easy approach but my patience is wearing thin. It has been 3 months and I believe she gets worse every day. She will also follow the other show heifer when leading so we have separated them and now the other heifer is starting to not lead. We also purchased a supper lead (the calm one) and this does nothing to the first heifer and makes the second heifer worse. Just trying to figure out if I should just cut my losses on this one and get rid of her, or maybe hooking her up to a donkey.

Really?? I am almost speechless at this post - Have you considered the welfare of the heifer?? You are keeping her tied up all day and all night (an animal designed to graze), you have hooked her up to a truck, you have taken a herd animal and apparently separated her from herd mates and you are losing your patience!! Really?? Not every animal is destined to lead and show - do the heifer a favor and find her a home where someone wants an cow

she is not your heifer dl. you are not the cow police.

No she isn't my heifer and I am not the cow police but sometimes we need to step back and look at what we are doing when animals are involved - yes M Rock there are animals that will never break to lead

 

[nlgriff]

I would have to agree with DL.  If its been 3 months and she is getting worse every day, you're probably better off kicking her out of the show string. 

 

[TXSimmy]

First off I was only following advice I received here on Steer Planet when I first posted looking for advice on what to do. I was told to tie her up to a tractor and lead her around. Do not have a tractor so we used our truck. I never said we dragged her, if you read the post I said we went very slow. That is why she was able to hunker down and finally lay down. As far as separating her from the other show heifer and tying her up this was also done due to more advice from here. It seems she has become dependent on the other heifer and we were only trying to get rid of the separation anxiety. And really, what is the diffference from tying her to a fence at home underneath shelter and being at a major or National show where they are tied up 24 hours a day for sometimes a week? We have broke many heifers of our own and for kids from FFA where the Ag teacher didn't have the time to help. Always done it the easy way with the heifers well being the major concern. I watched a heifer being broke on a donkey only once and have concerns about that process, seems like it can be a very rough expierence for the heifer. So my questions were is there ever one that just doesn't want to break to lead and should I try a donkey? I guess next time I have a question I will just keep it to my self and not come on Steer Planet looking for advice, to many Cow Police.

 

[DL]

First off I was only following advice I received here on Steer Planet when I first posted looking for advice on what to do. I was told to tie her up to a tractor and lead her around. Do not have a tractor so we used our truck. I never said we dragged her, if you read the post I said we went very slow. That is why she was able to hunker down and finally lay down. As far as separating her from the other show heifer and tying her up this was also done due to more advice from here. It seems she has become dependent on the other heifer and we were only trying to get rid of the separation anxiety. And really, what is the diffference from tying her to a fence at home underneath shelter and being at a major or National show where they are tied up 24 hours a day for sometimes a week? We have broke many heifers of our own and for kids from FFA where the Ag teacher didn't have the time to help. Always done it the easy way with the heifers well being the major concern. I watched a heifer being broke on a donkey only once and have concerns about that process, seems like it can be a very rough expierence for the heifer. So my questions were is there ever one that just doesn't want to break to lead and should I try a donkey? I guess next time I have a question I will just keep it to my self and not come on Steer Planet looking for advice, to many Cow Police.

My point is that (according to you) you are frustrated, it has been 3 months, the heifer is getting worse, the other heifers are getting worse, your patience is running thin - so what you have done and are doing is not working - time to step back and look at the big picture - is this really what showing cattle is all about? Is this really what we want to teach our youth? Your frustration is clearly being felt by and reacted to by your heifers. As people who own cattle it is our responsibility to be able to read our cattle and walk away when the frustration level gets too high. It is also our responsibility to filter advise we get off the internet - just because somebody posts something doesn't mean it is right or fair or that it will work. My other point is that not all animals do well in all situations - for ex a heifer who repeatedly jumped a 4 foot high fence - sold to a guy with a single short wire - never jumped that low fence. Your heifer might be fine elsewhere but the karma you 2 have is not good. Your question was "Is it possible that you can get a heifer that will never break to lead?" - the answer is yes, sometimes it is never and sometimes it is in the current situation.

and BTW just because you ask for advise doesn't mean you have to take it or that you will like it

 

[nate53]

M Rock Farm - all your approaches are reasonable in my opinion (I would and have done them) but if it's been 3 months with no improvement and she's going the other way.  You've given her about two months longer than I would have.  It sounds like it's time to forget the show idea for her (she sounds like hamburger or a cow - your choice).  Good luck!

99.9% of all animals can be broke, but for some of them its not reasonable, economical, or humane to break them.  MY OPINION

 

[knabe]

Is it possible you need improvement and not the heifer?

Try working on her attitude with the expectation she doesn't need to move.

Its more about u figuring it out than her.

Find someone who does thing differently without force

Ever drag a date to the movies with a tractor, or even a pickup real slow?

When u feel resistance the animal is telling u where to apply less force not more to obtain trust.

There is a difference between holding and pulling.  

Have u ever found how little pull is required for your heifer to brace?

For one trained to brace, it's really easy to get them to respond on a loose halter and think about what is going on.

I always find it amazing how people can't seem to figure this out.

The animal has been trained that it needs to resist for longer and longer for the human to go away.

 

[AAOK]

Not all advice on this forum is good advice, however, I do believe most is well intended. DL stated what needed to be said. Too many things have already been done the wrong way to expect this heifer to respond the way you want. Sell her, or turn her out.

 

[Bilmar]

That you can get a heifer that will never break to lead? I have an earlier post about one that we are having major problems with and she will not lead.  She will lead to water and back to the pen but if you try and lead her somewhere else she will not budge.  We have hooked her up to the truck and very easily tried to get her to walk and all she will do is hunker down until she finally lays down.  We are now keeping her tied all during the day and night and going out to take her to water and feed and then trying to lead her. Like I said she will lead to the water and feed but no where else. I believe in the nice and easy approach but my patience is wearing thin. It has been 3 months and I believe she gets worse every day. She will also follow the other show heifer when leading so we have separated them and now the other heifer is starting to not lead. We also purchased a supper lead (the calm one) and this does nothing to the first heifer and makes the second heifer worse. Just trying to figure out if I should just cut my losses on this one and get rid of her, or maybe hooking her up to a donkey.

You should take a step back, relax, and start over. If you show frustration the calf can sense it. Go to calf training 101, and start over and make her your friend, bond with her all over and see what happens you might be surprised. Remember they are smarter than most people. good luck and let me know how it works for you.

 

[QMC]

Or, instead of criticizing you, maybe some more ideas would be more helpful?

Try making her walk backwards (after untying her from the truck). It is harder for them to plant themselves and not budge.  Also lead her in tight circles in each direction. Again pulling in a way that she can not brace against.  That should get you started.

Also think about what knabe posted.  There has to be a reward for a step in the right direction...

 

[simba]

I agree with what DL said. In my opinion you have three options:

1) Sell her to someone who is aware of the situation and feels they can deal with her.

2) Retire her from the showstring. If you feel that she's a good heifer (which obviously you do if you are showing her) then I see no reason to sell her. Keep her around and see how her calves turn out.

3) Hire someone else to work with her, then re-bond with her, gain her trust and become her friend. Clearly you two have a personality clash. It happens, don't take it personally. But I do think that you have to understand that when you take extreme measures you can end up with bad outcomes, like this one.

My advice would be to pick one of those 3 options and then take it as a learning experience and move on. Good Luck.

 

[DLD]

Maybe it's just me, 'cause I know lots of people do it that way, but I've never liked breaking them to lead by tieing them up all day and/or night and then trying to lead them to feed/water.  They get tired and frustrated just like we do.  We tie them up every evening for not more than an hour, then lead them a very short distance (like 40') to feed and turn them loose.  When they start cooperating, start leading them a little farther each time, 'til they're leading well.  It rarely takes us over maybe ten days to get a calf from never haltered to leading pretty well.  Stay calm and be patient.  As others have said, don't just pull forward on one that won't move - pull to one side so they have to move to keep their balance, give them some slack and see what happens - you might be surprised how many will walk with you, given the chance.

Maybe you could try leaving her alone for a few days, and starting over with a new technique.  Would be worth a try, IMHO.

 

[knabe]

As others have said, don't just pull forward on one that move - pull to one side so they have to move to keep their balance, give them some slack and see what happens - you might be surprised how many will walk with you, given the chance.

Bam. It's all right there. All of life, right there.

Close your eyes and feel, hear, smell it. Soon u will see and taste success.

 

[ADG]

This is just MHO....it really is not worth the frustration and time to conquer this heifer.  Not only is it stressful for the heifer, I am sure it has been frustrating for you and your family. *Speaking from experience*  You are working with a heifer, let he be a breeder. 

We have gotten past all the troubles you have had only to find that when you do get them to the show, they are out of their element.  It is not fun to get in the ring and have them lock up because they are scared to death.  I PROMISE YOU...there is always another heifer out there.

Really, for everyones sake, let her be what she was made to be.

 

[paj315]

My sons heifer was this way we took her out to a small open show and it was completely out of her element.  This kind of forced her to trust us since we were the only familiar thing she knew there and she did great. It was just like she had been shown for years. Brought her gome and she has been fine ever since. However mu brother had one uears ago that the only way to lead her was eith a bull snap in her bose. Needless to say she never saw the show ring. Ended up kicking her out in the pasture just be a cow.