Ivy League TH Status

[onthegofarmer]

Had someone tell me they Retested Ivy League and now he is a TH Carrier.  Is this true????

 

[kamerkat]

haven't heard this but he does have the th carrier head

 

[vic]

yes, and rumor has it there is a lawsuit brewing against whoever did the TH test and tested him clean.

 

[onthegofarmer]

I did here that it was the testing service that dropped the ball.  I am glad I used it on a TH negative cow.

 

[R1Livestock]

Sounds like it will be a lot of nail biting for those who used him on carrier cows.  1 out of 4 of them  is a gonner before it's born.  Glad we did not use him now, but still like the bull.  He's just not as applicable as I thought he may have been if these rumors are true. 

 

[aj]

AHHHHH the ole th and pha ain't no big deal thing rears its ugly head. I have alot more faith in the tests and testers rather then the club calf goof balls. I'm sure if there is a lawsuit we can thank the Democrats and th tests will go to 100$ ahead so everybody can buy lawsuit insurance. When the club calf people get involved in cattle such wonderfull things happen. ;D

 

[shortyjock89]

AHHHHH the ole th and pha ain't no big deal thing rears its ugly head. I have alot more faith in the tests and testers rather then the club calf goof balls. I'm sure if there is a lawsuit we can thank the Democrats and th tests will go to 100$ ahead so everybody can buy lawsuit insurance. When the club calf people get involved in cattle such wonderfull things happen. ;D

Just sayin, Josh isn't the kind of guy to purposely keep this from people.  If there was an error, I would assume it would be on the test. I know the people at AgriGenomics, and they're really good at what they do, but mistakes do happen.

 

[JSchroeder]

AJ, your incessant bashing of anything club calf oriented is obviously beating a dead horse but now you’re crossing the line into just being an a-hole for the sake of being an a-hole.

The “club calf goof ball” you are referring to in this case is hands down the nicest person I’ve run across in the past five years.  He’s done nothing to give you anything resembling a defensible reason to reason to post such trash.

 

[aj]

I guess I don't even know who you are talking about. Sounds like you are an unbiased observer. I spose you and 5 friends will gang up and have me banned now? My point is what the heck did you think would happen someday with all the dancing around and th and pha is no big deal cause us humans are so smart we can work around stuff like this. Is beevers the goofball or some special breeder? I'm not smart enough to know who holds "Jesus" like status on the board discussions anymore. You guys are going to have to print up a list of people who can 't be criticized I guess.

 

[farmboy]

Nobody danced around anything. A mistake was made.

 

[aj]

What would be wrong with having 2 tests done on each A.I. bull. Would this be outlandish in procedure. Blind tests?

 

[BAILEYFARMS]

Here is the story from one of the owners. They tested him as a calf and he was th pos. but the lady entering the information in the computer to send out the results put in wrong thus Joshua and other owners got a letter saying he was clean. Not there fault! I myself had a bull tested and they said he was clean, just as Ivy League a th calf was born.The people to blame is the lab but they have a disclaimer saying the only thing there liable for is the cost of test. I have been told of at least three other bulls that the lab has sent out false neg. on. The lab is a joke. I don't know josh but the owner that called me did so as soon as they could pove that it was a th calf out of ivy league.You guys jumped on me about Jazzman and now on josh for ivy were not to blame. Were just breeders trying to make a living and be honest with the people that have breed to our bulls.

 

[herefordfootball]

It was a mistake. It was made. It stinks that it was a major one, but the people in the lab are HUMAN. They are the ones at fault, but how many times have one of you messed up paperwork on a computer? Hmm...

 

[BAILEYFARMS]

When its your job and it can cost a person the amount of money it can cost people with high dollar bulls that is an error that should never be made. Check and recheck then check it again!

 

[aj]

What would be wrong with having two blind samples done on each a.i. sire and donor.

 

[herefordfootball]

When its your job and it can cost a person the amount of money it can cost people with high dollar bulls that is an error that should never be made. Check and recheck then check it again!

True. I cant argue that. I completely agree with you there. But I think sometimes no matter how many times you check you'll make a mistake.

 

[justintime]

I hope nobody even suggests that Joshua Ramsey has anything to do with this. I spoke with him a few nights ago, and he was pretty concerned, but mostly for the people who used the bull, and of course for his own creditability. Josh said right from the first time he posted a picture of Ivy League that he was going to get him TH tested , and if he was a TH carrier, he would be a show steer. If he was clean, he would maybe be promoted as a bull, if he continued to develop. Well, he was tested and he was found to be TH free. Ivy League did continue to develop and Joshua and his family did a great job of promoting him. He was an eye opening sire when he was displayed in Denver. I don't think I have ever seen a calf as thick made as he was at his young age. He had lots of hair but there was a very thick bull under the hair.

I think now is the time to be supporting Joshua and his family and I certainly hope that this doesn't develop into a clubby bashing thread. I think that is most inappropriatiate, to say the least. I  can just imagine what they must be going through right now as they have spend a substantial amount of money, promoting and collecting this bull.

This is now the third bull that I have heard of in the past 3 years that this has happened to. I had a bull that this same thing happened with. A breeder wanted to buy my bull, and I would not even price him until he was tested. The test results came back that he was TH free. I priced the bull and he was sold. The people who bought my bull only had 1 carrier female in their herd. She calved with the third calf born from him, and it was a TH defective calf and was diagnosed as such by a Vet College. AgriGenomics said that the test was 100% accurate, but when they retested the same blood sample a second time, it came back as a TH Carrier. This is the exact same thing that happened with Ivy League and with the other bull I have heard about. For all I know there may have been more of these errors... but I certainly hope not.  To me, this only suggests that the test itself may truly be 100% accurate, however, there is still room for error from the human component. ( ie: the people doing the tests).

This is not the time or place to attack the breeders and owners of this bull. Let's use a little common sense in this discussion.

 

[aj]

What would be wrong with having two samples pulled on each ai sire and donor?

 

[R1Livestock]

I'm not a lawyer, but when you breed a carrier cow to a bull that is marketed as "clean" and have a TH deformed calf, the buck has to stop somewhere, and I don't think that it should be at the producer with the calf.  It comes down to false representation.  However, there was no intent, and it sounds like the negligence rests on the hands of the testing facility.  This could be interesting.

That being said, I feel awfully bad for the owners of the bull.  I do not know them personally, but this would really be getting the rug pulled out from underneath you.  It is said that rough times don't build character, they show it; we're about to see the character of the owners with remedies in the coming months.

 

[justintime]

Double testing may be an idea on AI sires and donor females, but it doesn't solve all the problems. My bull was not an AI sire and he cost his owners a bunch of money ... and his status error was found out quickly.