Why does it seem that at the winter Midwest jackpot shows there is more of an emphasis on attractiveness and power, and less of a focus on structure, completeness, and functionality, especially in heifers? It always seems like the calves that are winning early never win late. It seems like even the same judges that judge a certain way at state fairs or national shows will judge a different way in the winter. Thoughts?
Jackpot show judging trends
- Thread starter JR Cattle
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Heismanziel
Member
Same reason a lot of the good fat steers do not do as well as jackpot steers, they are judged as they are right then, not how they may turn out later. Right wrong, or indefferent, that is how it is. It is the best calf at that moment ( in the judges eyes) I would bet you dollars to donuts no one would like to see a steer show if a feed lot buyer was the judge a selected calves he would buy for the feed lot, I'm guessing it would be the same for a commercial guy buying replacements.
Telos
Well-known member
I believe what you are seeing is just the opinions of a few judges. No all judges are the same. Some are not great at perdicting a calf's future outcome.
knabe
Well-known member
I think I would PAY to see a feedlot buyer judge a prospect and fat show.
Record the reasons and blast them loud and far.
Many comments would probably mirror that catalog everyone likes with humor.
Structure problems get worse with weight. Think of the complaints if structure was equally weighted at both shows. Perhaps the prospect shows is just a way to allow more people to win and let the fats win where they are supposed as the people who pick those seem to be doing the better job. Perhaps they are the better judge or they just time everything better and it really has nothing to do with anything anyways.
Record the reasons and blast them loud and far.
Many comments would probably mirror that catalog everyone likes with humor.
Structure problems get worse with weight. Think of the complaints if structure was equally weighted at both shows. Perhaps the prospect shows is just a way to allow more people to win and let the fats win where they are supposed as the people who pick those seem to be doing the better job. Perhaps they are the better judge or they just time everything better and it really has nothing to do with anything anyways.
rackranch
Well-known member
It seems to me that what your seeing was the trend here in Texas 4-6 years ago but it is slowly going back the other way at this time. Maybe people are figuring out these heifers that were meant to be steers aren't the best when turned out to pasture?
There are way too many factors affecting winning early vs. winning late to make generalities accurate. Primary reason number 1 is you have different calves showing up to different shows. It's rarely apples to apples.
But assuming you are dealing with the same animals, there are so many good calves out there that for any calf to win on a given day, it pretty much has to be hitting a peak on that day. Some calves hit peaks very early in life, some later. That is next to impossible for a judge to predict seeing a calf one time.
Take Texas for example which has very large numbers of very good calves and has for decades. For comparison sake, let's take our major summer prospect show - the Belt Buckle Bonanza in comparison to our other majors. In the 80s and 90s, steers that would win Grand or Reserve Overall more often than not wound up in one of those spots at one of our majors. That's not the case at all anymore. It still happens (the Martin calf that won BBB and Fort Worth last year), but not nearly with the same frequency.
I don't know how long the original poster has been around cattle shows, but there has been a very strong trend for years now emphasizing soundness. Calves that do well at shows are much sounder than they were ten years ago. As an industry, I think show cattle are much more towards soundness.
But assuming you are dealing with the same animals, there are so many good calves out there that for any calf to win on a given day, it pretty much has to be hitting a peak on that day. Some calves hit peaks very early in life, some later. That is next to impossible for a judge to predict seeing a calf one time.
Take Texas for example which has very large numbers of very good calves and has for decades. For comparison sake, let's take our major summer prospect show - the Belt Buckle Bonanza in comparison to our other majors. In the 80s and 90s, steers that would win Grand or Reserve Overall more often than not wound up in one of those spots at one of our majors. That's not the case at all anymore. It still happens (the Martin calf that won BBB and Fort Worth last year), but not nearly with the same frequency.
I don't know how long the original poster has been around cattle shows, but there has been a very strong trend for years now emphasizing soundness. Calves that do well at shows are much sounder than they were ten years ago. As an industry, I think show cattle are much more towards soundness.
I guess I am not seeing so much of that in Nebraska, although we are talking about a pretty "broad topic" and there will certainly be examples of that.
I believe that the impression of pretty and powerful over structure (in the steers) is really a situation in which the more mature steers seem to come to the top. I feel that the primary reason that these steers don't win as Fat Steers is because they just plain get stale. The State Fair winners are March and April born, and SOME of the stout and powerful calves that come to the top as Prospects are December, January, and February calves. These older steers are really hard to keep fresh for such a long period of time.
The smaller, less mature steers we have don't even leave the barn for the early shows. We typically show our County Fair steers at the early shows because they have to be on schedule to be fat by the end of May. I know that some others up here do the same thing. So the State Fair prospects for the most part are not even at the early shows.
Another factor that I see is the really stout progress steers are often times BIG HAIRED, and are being handled by the best guys in the business. After the early shows are over, the steers go to their owners' homes and the hair comes off...next thing you know that awesome hair isn't there come August.
The steer that won our State Fair last year actually won his first Prospect show in late November, and came back and won as a Fat Steer.
I really don't follow the heifers much, so I am not able to add much to the thread on that side.
I believe that the impression of pretty and powerful over structure (in the steers) is really a situation in which the more mature steers seem to come to the top. I feel that the primary reason that these steers don't win as Fat Steers is because they just plain get stale. The State Fair winners are March and April born, and SOME of the stout and powerful calves that come to the top as Prospects are December, January, and February calves. These older steers are really hard to keep fresh for such a long period of time.
The smaller, less mature steers we have don't even leave the barn for the early shows. We typically show our County Fair steers at the early shows because they have to be on schedule to be fat by the end of May. I know that some others up here do the same thing. So the State Fair prospects for the most part are not even at the early shows.
Another factor that I see is the really stout progress steers are often times BIG HAIRED, and are being handled by the best guys in the business. After the early shows are over, the steers go to their owners' homes and the hair comes off...next thing you know that awesome hair isn't there come August.
The steer that won our State Fair last year actually won his first Prospect show in late November, and came back and won as a Fat Steer.
I really don't follow the heifers much, so I am not able to add much to the thread on that side.
knabe
Well-known member
what percent of market heifers are used for breeding?
ROMAX
Well-known member
TOO MANY in my opinion.knabe said:
knabe
Well-known member
does anyone have pics of a market heifer (shown as one) and a top placing calf from her, i.e. proving everyone wrong?
hangonsloopy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2009
- Messages
- 155
I have noticed this in Ohio BIG TIME in the last couple years.
Maybe I'm just a dummy, but when i look at these heifers I first sort them on structure and kind of move them where they need to be from there based on other factors. I don't see that happening lately.
I see so many guys talking power, and look in these heifers it is starting to drive me crazy.
The Biggest trend I see lately is talking them on chest floor like it is one of the most important factors. Yes, go ahead and talk chest floor, but in my opinion you only do it in noting that it was a difference in 2 heifers that you like equally, and had to knit pick to place one above the other. I'm a guy that likes a sound, big bellied female, and I am willing to give up some power and look to achieve that because i feel it is so much more important when these cows are 7 yrs old standing out in a pasture.
Oh well, I guess all you can really do is raise the ones you like and deal with it.
Maybe I'm just a dummy, but when i look at these heifers I first sort them on structure and kind of move them where they need to be from there based on other factors. I don't see that happening lately.
I see so many guys talking power, and look in these heifers it is starting to drive me crazy.
The Biggest trend I see lately is talking them on chest floor like it is one of the most important factors. Yes, go ahead and talk chest floor, but in my opinion you only do it in noting that it was a difference in 2 heifers that you like equally, and had to knit pick to place one above the other. I'm a guy that likes a sound, big bellied female, and I am willing to give up some power and look to achieve that because i feel it is so much more important when these cows are 7 yrs old standing out in a pasture.
Oh well, I guess all you can really do is raise the ones you like and deal with it.
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