showcattlegal
Well-known member
I was thinking about breeding a red blazed face money shot x hereford x mainex angus to him. She is pretty clubbie. But I don't know anybody that's tried him. What are the birth weights like on clubbies?
Jakes proud Jazz
- Thread starter showcattlegal
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JbarL
Well-known member
BAILEYFARMS
Well-known member
JPJ IS SAFE FOR HFRS THEY CAN HIT 90 BUT I USED HIM ON HEIFERS AND GOT ALONG WELL. USE HIM ON A GOOD FRONTED COW. IF YOU WANT A BULL WITH A EXTRA SHOT OF MUSCLE TRY JAZZMAN. YOU CAN SEE A PIC AT tkcattle.com contact owners for semen. his birth weight is 55 lbs th and pha free.
OH Breeder
Well-known member
JbarL said:
What's her Breeding JbarL? Middle in the Red.
JbarL
Well-known member
she a 2 yr old heifer in that pic....shes my neighbors herd, they had alot of red the last 2 yrs....they have " black herfords" as well... the reds are comming out of the blacks and black herfys both.? they had a red angus bull about 4 yrs ago so thats the red..some angus/maine was there last herd bull..........she is a monster ( as are several of his others) she is the first of thers due due to my herd bull...as is the rest of his herd for this season ( about 9 more ) ill pm ya some more pics of his stock...very durable and great milkers...our farms join and we are working together on a few projects for this season...jbarlOH Breeder said:
kfacres
Well-known member
I saw severl JPJ sons of jungels this year in denver.... One really special one. sold in the sale to Select SIres.... I will be using him for sure next year on heifers.... Jazz should work for a "clubby" type of purebred. with some calving ease... Makes them moderate, stout, muscled, and red..
OH Breeder
Well-known member
they say he really moderates frame. I guess that is my only concern in using him on everything we have. We have some cows that are more moderate as it is. I have seen some pretty good ones out of him.
JbarL said:
I think he will work on her for the most part. She looks like she could use a little extension in her neck.... he probably won't change that much but won't make it worse either. It may be just the angle of the pic. I've sure seen some good ones out of him and we've had a lot of success showing them. The calf in my avatar is a JPJ and he's been beat one time in breed this year. We are keeping our fingers crossed hoping he'll be the State Champ Shorthorn Steer in about 20 days.
justintime
Well-known member
I have not seen as many JPJ calves as many of you, but I have noticed a few structural issues that did concern me on a few of his calves that I have seen.
The first thing I noticed is that some have bowed legs, which in my opinion is a serious fault, and it leads to early trips to a sale barn. I was able to see a set of JPJ bulls being washed and it was very visible when all the leg hair was lying flat. To me, bowed legs is one of the most serious soundness issues there is... but then i am very critical in this area.
Secondly, I saw one group of 5 JPJ bulls, of which 3 of them had claws on their hind feet of uneven size. On all three of these bulls the inside back claws were smaller and shorter than the outside claws - all three had the exact same problem. These three bulls walked with very short strides and they also twisted on their back feet as they walked. In many of our bull sales bulls , here in Canada, bulls are culled on structural soundness, and these bulls would certainly have been culled up here. I have done the culling in several bull sales over the years, and I have always been told to be extremely critical of feet and legs, and from this, I always start my evaluation of any bull from the ground up. I would have had to cull these bulls if they had been entered in a bull sale that i was asked to evaluate them on soundness... and I have been accused up here of being too soft on my culling.
The third thing I noticed on some of the JPJ calves I have seen is that some of them are very straight shouldered. By this I mean that they do not have a proper shoulder angle, and this in my opinion also leads to an array of other structural problems as the animal gathers some age.
I really do appreciate the thickness and depth of rib that JPJ adds to each and every calf. He certainly does down size frame, so I would agree that anyone using him should be selective in what females he gets used on.
I am trying not to bash here, just simply saying what I have seen. As I said, I have only seen a few of his offspring. Maybe I saw all the structurally unsound ones, I do not know. What are the rest of you seeing? For the most part, I think JPJ has a role in the industry. I am only concerned about what I have seen so far myself... and i would also add that after seeing this, I would never buy a JPJ bull for myself without seeing him with my own eyes first.
The first thing I noticed is that some have bowed legs, which in my opinion is a serious fault, and it leads to early trips to a sale barn. I was able to see a set of JPJ bulls being washed and it was very visible when all the leg hair was lying flat. To me, bowed legs is one of the most serious soundness issues there is... but then i am very critical in this area.
Secondly, I saw one group of 5 JPJ bulls, of which 3 of them had claws on their hind feet of uneven size. On all three of these bulls the inside back claws were smaller and shorter than the outside claws - all three had the exact same problem. These three bulls walked with very short strides and they also twisted on their back feet as they walked. In many of our bull sales bulls , here in Canada, bulls are culled on structural soundness, and these bulls would certainly have been culled up here. I have done the culling in several bull sales over the years, and I have always been told to be extremely critical of feet and legs, and from this, I always start my evaluation of any bull from the ground up. I would have had to cull these bulls if they had been entered in a bull sale that i was asked to evaluate them on soundness... and I have been accused up here of being too soft on my culling.
The third thing I noticed on some of the JPJ calves I have seen is that some of them are very straight shouldered. By this I mean that they do not have a proper shoulder angle, and this in my opinion also leads to an array of other structural problems as the animal gathers some age.
I really do appreciate the thickness and depth of rib that JPJ adds to each and every calf. He certainly does down size frame, so I would agree that anyone using him should be selective in what females he gets used on.
I am trying not to bash here, just simply saying what I have seen. As I said, I have only seen a few of his offspring. Maybe I saw all the structurally unsound ones, I do not know. What are the rest of you seeing? For the most part, I think JPJ has a role in the industry. I am only concerned about what I have seen so far myself... and i would also add that after seeing this, I would never buy a JPJ bull for myself without seeing him with my own eyes first.
CAB
Well-known member
I'd be tempted to try Stumpy's bull, TM Gus. He will be safe on heifers & have a very good chance of throwing the roan color & I think may extend her up front. JMO. Brent
kfacres
Well-known member
I would have to agree with JIT... I have seen several straight fronted JPJ calves... wasn't going to say it, but he did, so i will back him up...
shortyjock89
Well-known member
kfacres said:
I agree as well. Most JPJ heifers that I've seen could be laid back more in their shoulder, and some of them are just puds, IMO. This is coming from a guy who likes his cattle pretty small!
oakbar
Well-known member
Had our first JPJ calf night before last out of a Centurion/Ten Queens heifer that I bought on the Cyclone Trace sale last fall. 82 pound, all red bull calf that looks pretty good. I induced the heifer because I had to leave on a business trip for a few days and I don't think she dilated very well. Consequently, we had to pull the calf but he was up and getting around right away and the heifer's doing a really good job of being a momma so I guess we made the right decision. Understand with the inducing and the lack of help on birth weight from the heifer's side this is probably not a good "average" indicator of what JPJ will do. We've got two more due on March 4th so maybe I'll know a little more after that.
zapper
Active member
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2007
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- 28
We have a JPJ steer that is very bow legged on his hind legs.
showman ne
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- Joined
- Apr 9, 2008
- Messages
- 259
it has been interesting to see JPJ rise in popularity in recent years. When he came out he offered a lot of traits the shorty industry was looking for. Low BW, moderate frame, clean pedigree, while still offering style. However it became apparent quickly once his calves started feeding that some were too moderate (puds) also some of the structural issues have also come to light. this being said JPJ is not a bad bull, he definately has his place in the industry, however, he is not the ultimate shorthorn, savior of the breed, next great one that many have tried to make him. I think a major contributor to this was, as I stated before, when he came out he seemed to solve a lot of problems. I think a lot of people saw him as the "answer" and can't accept the fact that he brings some flaws that we don't want to proliferate throughout the breed. This is all just my opinion and I'm not trying to bash the bull or any of his fans, I think that we will definately see his influence in many years to come and I wouldn't be entirely suprised if one of his descendants is the eventual problem solver for the breed. JPJ use should be closely managed and if this is done I think we could see some great things
I've been a big JPJ fan and still am. I have said since the start that he isn't the fix all bull but does have his place. What will hurt him is that many people may have used him on everything. No bull is good for every cow. We've had good luck showing his progeny and will continue showing them as long as they do well for us. Some of these one ton cows need a shot of him.
kfacres
Well-known member
Like your post.... Really is true... Some like JPJ. some don't.. I agree that he has his place, as most bulls do... As it's been said many times, JPJ will create moderate, easy fleshing, good looking, easy calving calves.. that mostly are red, but can have some color... He also offeres a very valuable CLEAN, outcross pedigree... Also important to today's Shorthorn breeders... I think as long as this guy is used on good structured, bigger cattle, he should work.. But i think where most breeders who have used JPJ as the gospel truth are going to get in trouble-- by using him on the "clubbier" type of Shorthorns-- "Stuff's and Visions- maybe??".... This just spells out for a straight- midget!! Jungels told me If if his used on straight cattle, his calves might be a bit straight, sometimes...
I like the Jungels bull that sold to Select Sires, and will be using him next year on heifers... I know he is a bit straight upfront, and rolls in his knee and hock a bit.. But this guy has a place on heifers IMO.... Also, i like the fact that his mother is a grand-daughter of Missioin, and i'm more than a slight fan of him...
AS far as creating a savior for the Shorthorn breed, I'm sure someone, somewhere is working on that-- WE ALL ARE!! When he will come, or when he doesn't, knowbody will know... Truthfully, I don't know if a breed savior is what we need.... Look at how some bulls of the yester-year were used (Trump maybe?)-- everyone and thier brother was using him & sons, and thought they were the savior-- look what problems they created... Look at the angus world and the 1680 bloodlines. Personally, i am a fan of linebreeding, but if you are going to do it, THEN- you had better do some homework on the ancestor to are building around... Most people aren't smart enough to do so... and this always equalls ==PROBLEMS!!
I'm tired or typing, and no one probably wants to read about what a dumb college kid says anyways!!
I like the Jungels bull that sold to Select Sires, and will be using him next year on heifers... I know he is a bit straight upfront, and rolls in his knee and hock a bit.. But this guy has a place on heifers IMO.... Also, i like the fact that his mother is a grand-daughter of Missioin, and i'm more than a slight fan of him...
AS far as creating a savior for the Shorthorn breed, I'm sure someone, somewhere is working on that-- WE ALL ARE!! When he will come, or when he doesn't, knowbody will know... Truthfully, I don't know if a breed savior is what we need.... Look at how some bulls of the yester-year were used (Trump maybe?)-- everyone and thier brother was using him & sons, and thought they were the savior-- look what problems they created... Look at the angus world and the 1680 bloodlines. Personally, i am a fan of linebreeding, but if you are going to do it, THEN- you had better do some homework on the ancestor to are building around... Most people aren't smart enough to do so... and this always equalls ==PROBLEMS!!
I'm tired or typing, and no one probably wants to read about what a dumb college kid says anyways!!
kfacres
Well-known member
short dawg, you read my mind while i was typing... sorry for repeating you..
