Making Females. Bull Suggestions Needed.

[Heavy Weight]

Looking to AI breed 40 commercial Angus X cattle to make females that will produce some good club calves. These commercial cows are +- 1300lbs , very feminine, and plenty of milk. Looking for a bull that will add some depth, muscle, and rib shape while keeping a similar mature weight. These cows still need to be able to survive on desert range (not too brutal), have their calves unassisted, and have zero problems traveling. Looking to keep it under $40/straw. Would consider breaking it up into two groups of 20, but want to start out with as much of uniform base as possible.

Here's a couple of ideas I've had so far. Feedback welcome.

http://cattlevisions.com/bull_detail.php?BullId=3234

http://cattlevisions.com/bull_detail.php?BullId=3054

http://cattlevisions.com/bull_detail.php?BullId=2982

 

[BroncoFan]

In my opinion, if you are wanting females then use sexed heifer semen. A little more costly but you're guaranteed females. Those are great choices and if you're wanting to stay with simmi bulls then I would suggest Yardley High Regard, Nickels and Dimes, Whizard, Bandwagon, etc. I guess I just like the Griswold's and Yardley's programs. They breed for maternal power.

 

[librarian]

I was asking a friend about OCC Mitchell when I was studying Jakes Blue Moon.
He told me OCC made as much money selling club calves as they do selling registered Angus seedstock
I didn't know that, but it sort of makes sense and helped me understand the Jakes' Program.
OCC Anchor was mentioned as a bull that worked for club type and he's also known as a great cow maker. Mitchell is line bred to him.
Maybe consider something OCC or even the Blue Moon bull.

 

[sizzler14]

http://sekgenetics.mybigcommerce.com/long-time-coming/

 

[GoWyo]

Yardleys run on desert and mountain range in Utah.  That would be a good program to emulate for what you are wanting to do.

 

[b_kackley]

Angus- anything with an occ prefix or a duff bull. I think OCC Doctor would work nice for what you want. As far as simm I do like High Regard, Whizard, A Step Up, and mama's boy.

 

[JTM]

I like the Yardley and OCC suggestions for eye appealing cattle that still do what they are suppose to do.

 

[SEA]

IMHO:  I would use a PB bull and get the heterosis POP.  Especially if you want the F1 females for club calf mamas, as you will be breeding them to "crossed-up" club calf sires.

3C Macho

Built Right

High Regard

Proven Simmental bulls for making replacement females on Angus cows.  (pop)

 

[BroncoFan]

We flushed a 9 year old purebred Maine Yardley bred cow to sexed Whizard semen.  The first embryo is due in March.  We're crossing our fingers and not "counting our chickens."

 

[RyanChandler]

IMHO:  I would use a PB bull and get the heterosis POP.  Especially if you want the F1 females for club calf mamas, as you will be breeding them to "crossed-up" club calf sires.

Excellent advice.  Astute cattlemen are always forward thinking.  The last thing you want to do is mongrelize your foundation. 

 

[librarian]

Ordinarily, I would agree with XBAR about consistency in the foundation- or cows that comprise the herd- but in this case mongrelization might be advantageous. As I understand the Show World it's about pushing the limits of variation within a standardized type. Standard size, standard phenotype but a variety of individuals that are made more valuable by being superficially unique.
You are not going to get a genetic sport without wild cards.
Building a foundation by selecting for homogeneous type between breeds (similar mongrels) and then shuffling in novel breed could serve the club calf purpose. He needs genetic diversity or the calves will be boring.

 

[shortyjock89]

I don't know, I've won a lot more shows with just basically good made cattle with fancy haircuts and a little finesse with a feed pan than I ever have with a freak.

A good example of this is Monopoly. His mom is just a really good made Angus. And he works on everything from PB Char, Shorthorn, Simmental, Angus, and also the crossed up clubby stuff.  Because he is consistent, and I believe he gets that from his mother. Early on, he was somewhat discounted as being too middle of the road, and wouldn't sire stout ebough cattle due to being half Angus. He probably doesn't make quite as many freaks as his sire, but he's way more consistent at making good ones.

 

[BroncoFan]

In my experience, cows out of the Yardley's program cross very well with Monopoly. Plus any heifers out of the cross work in production.

 

[librarian]

I was just thinking about color-like sliding some of that neat Simmi chrome into a n OCC type cow. I looked at a Yardley's site to see what they are doing. Several OCC x Simmi bulls, so I guess it works.
I like the dam on Hard as Steel 144W.
http://yardleycattleco.com/ourherdsires.html

 

[insjockey]

So I ask this not being a smartass but just trying to understand...

Why is Meyer Ranch 734 considered to be a great cow maker?

I know most on here are not EPD folks, but his, with a 95+% accuracy, would not suggest that. Bottom 5% for API, bottom 1% for MCE and CE. STAY is top 10% but why so bad on API and MCE? You would think it would be better.

 

[BroncoFan]

I was just thinking about color-like sliding some of that neat Simmi chrome into a n OCC type cow. I looked at a Yardley's site to see what they are doing. Several OCC x Simmi bulls, so I guess it works.
I like the dam on Hard as Steel 144W.
http://yardleycattleco.com/ourherdsires.html

For county and state fairs the cross works to make a competitive animal generally speaking.

 

[RyanChandler]

Ordinarily, I would agree with XBAR about consistency in the foundation- or cows that comprise the herd- but in this case mongrelization might be advantageous. As I understand the Show World it's about pushing the limits of variation within a standardized type. Standard size, standard phenotype but a variety of individuals that are made more valuable by being superficially unique.
You are not going to get a genetic sport without wild cards.
Building a foundation by selecting for homogeneous type between breeds (similar mongrels) and then shuffling in novel breed could serve the club calf purpose. He needs genetic diversity or the calves will be boring.

I see what you're saying, but that can be easily accomplish by using the mongrel club calf sires over F1 cows. They will add more than enough volatility to the mix.  There's always going to be different considerations and some give and take but, ultimately, no matter the production scenario, the F1 momma cow will provide the breeder with the most superior option.

 

[b_kackley]

insjockey i don't think that is a bad question. Most Simm purebred breeders you talk to aren't that high on Meyer. He works best on crossbred cows. Which is what he has been predominantly used on. He puts a white face on them most of the time, adds or retains style and athleticism, and adds or retains frame. The clubby industry is what has made him so popular. Personally I like alot of his sons better than him. He has been used on some really good cows over the years. Just my opinion.
I still stand by the reccomendations of the occ bulls for a base for clubby cows as long as you have cows with enough frame to breed them to. Alot of the occ bulls will downsize frame. They are still wide, keep like none other, and made really nice. Some of those bulls don't sacrifice as much frame as others. Considering the question at hand which ones will keep the cows at a desireable frame size is a consideration for using these bulls. Alot of the Simm bulls mentioned are very consistent and would also work nicely for clubby cows. Heck breed half Simm half Angus and see what works for you. Could start by using the angus bulls on your first and second calvers, and simmys on your mature cows. Lots of good options are out there.

 

[Heavy Weight]

The more I look the more I'm leaning towards a PB simmental. I need to get on the phone with someone from griswolds or yardleys and ask some more questions.

I do like the duff and occ suggestions though. We've been building a registered angus herd of around 60 and growing for the past 2-3 years. We have right around 50 occ anchor ivf embroys to implant this next year. We definitely need to try out some more duff lines though in the near future. I love how they're all stamped with the same style and look.

The bull Long time coming looks great, but has he been used in any scenarios like mine? Anyone have any calves or first hand experience?

 

[BroncoFan]

If you get to talk to Mr. Yardley, then you will get a real treat. He'll want to know all about your program, what you're wanting to accomplish, etc. This world needs more men like Mr. Yardley.