my jpj shorthorn + herd

[mark tenenbaum]

His sire would certainly be a superior option. /// If you mean the blue his breeder and everyone who has seen him or  his calves think the opposite-and hes bigger O0

 

[RyanChandler]

Yeah that's a rookie's error mistaking expressed heterosis for genetic merit.  Of course the blue bull is more prominent,, he's a hybrid,, but unfortunately that expressed heterosis you see isn't heritable.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Yeah that's a rookie's error mistaking expressed heterosis for genetic merit.  Of course the blue bull is more prominent,, he's a hybrid,, but unfortunately that expressed heterosis you see isn't heritable.//// You mean like the frail hardoing cattle in this thread LOL-Dale Wernicke,Ohlde, and Horton have a combined 130 years plus in cattle-I unfortunately have only had them since 1961-Maybe Lynnette can wax eloquently in academic terms about them good AngusxShort x breds. O0

 

[linnettejane]

Yeah that's a rookie's error mistaking expressed heterosis for genetic merit.  Of course the blue bull is more prominent,, he's a hybrid,, but unfortunately that expressed heterosis you see isn't heritable.//// You mean like the frail hardoing cattle in this thread LOL-Dale Wernicke,Ohlde, and Horton have a combined 130 years plus in cattle-I unfortunately have only had them since 1961-Maybe Lynnette can wax eloquently in academic terms about them good AngusxShort x breds. O0

the biggest error this rookie made was not crossbreeding these shorthorns sooner...if that's wrong...I don't want to be right...

I save all that eloquent academia talk for my day job mark

(3 of those blues go back to occ legend, whole herd 100% unassisted live calf crop past 3 years, btw)

 

[RyanChandler]

I think my comments were mistaken.  Just because a hybrid bulls has more individual performance than a purebred counterpart does not mean that he is capable of transmitting that increased performance. In fact, the purebred bull would transmit more performance over unrelated cows via increased heterosis. 
You have some really nice cattle linette and like Mark I'm very big on the look of your f1 females as well. If your purpose in the supply chain isn't to provide seedstock to commercial cattleman, then I absolutely agree it is crazy not to be crossbreeding.  Commercial cow calf operators should absolutely be crossbreeding, ideally with purebred bulls of a 3rd breed over unrelated f1 cows.  From the outside looking in, it looks like you're in the transitional phase going from a seed stock operation to a commercial cow calf operation.  I'd really be interested in seeing terminal sired calves out of a black purebred Simmental or Maine over those F1 Shorthorn Angus cows. Combine the maternal heterosis of the F1 female with the outcross potential of some continental blood and youd be sure to set the world on fire. But using a crossbred bull over f1 cows certainly isn't an ideal scenario.  The calves may be good but 'good' is relative- I'd lay in bed at night and couldn't help but think how much better they would've been using a genuine purebred outcross.  There is no substitute for the f1 cow. Let her show you what she can really do given the most ideal mating scenario.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

The Blue example if they ued him is an F 1: a few years ago they used a red Maine purebred  (a Hybrid because of black blood?)-and now the Maine Angus they have leased-who is very close-after that they are going back to a shot of purebred Canadian Shorts-Given that at least 90% of all cattle are commercial cattle and probably 97% are hybrids for umpteen generations-I think in both cases-the proof is in the progeny-and I see A LOT of good commercials-where they have no idea what they are-and Ive seen some very good calves come out of some of them from clubby or registered matrernal bulls of all breeds as well as from some bull they bought from a neighbor or at the sale barn. And like any cattle-seen some bulls that didnt work on particular cows -mine included.In other words-great theory-but a little far reaching to prove by numbers given a vast population of cattlethat seem to perform just fine without a lot of genetic awareness and NO cattle are immune from genetics that sometimes dont knick.O0 O0