need advise Re consignment sales

[Malinda]

I am a board member for the Ohio Shorthorn Assoc. A member of the assoc has contacted me with some questions and concerns. I would appreciate your input on this matter.

Here's the deal: You consign an animal to a sale. You send in your entry fee and all other requirements. Then, you sell the animal down home, on the farm, before the sale.

Do you think this is wrong? Is it OK?
Is it right that the people that do show up pay more commission to cover costs for those that do not show up?
Should you be allowed to consign to that sale again?
Once an animal is consigned, should a vet statement verifying that the animal was not brought to the sale because it was ill, injured or unsound be required?
Should the folks that do not show up have to pay a penalty (sale expense, commission, etc.)?

I appreciate anyone taking the time to give me their thoughts.

Malinda

 

[Chris Bingham]

I think that here in Oklahoma they still make them pay their part for the animal they were supposed to sell. I worked for some people that put animals in the association sales and they always told people when the sale was that the calf could be purchased in, so never sold anything off the farm that they had already decided to put in the sale. Hope that helps.

 

[Dusty]

Animals are scratched from sales all the time and no reason is given.  I would say they are out the entry fee and thats it.  You can't really stick them with a penalty if they don't show up in my mind.  Now, if the animal consigned is supposed to be the highlight of the sale then that's a little different. 

 

[braunvieh]

Our breed has association-sponsored sales and there are no penalties to drop out. However, if you had to pay a consignment fee, you lose that. If you put something in the sale and it no-sales because your floor was higher than what it brought, you have to pay your share of commission and expenses as if the animal sold. I have wondered if we should add a cancel fee on those that drop out of sales that don't have a consigment fee. It really does hurt the other consignors with higher sale expenses spread over fewer sellers.

 

[oakbar]

Are they offering a replacement lot for the sale?  If so, I think you let it go.   If not, you might consider charging them just as you would a No-Sale that went through the ring!!  

Just brain storming for you---and with my brain sometimes its barely a whirlwind!!

 

[ShowmanQ]

I do understand where you are coming from on this Malinda, however, I am a man of written rule. Unless there is a rule stating that there will be a penalty for "scratched" calves I would say the person would have a free pass this year, with exceptiono of their deposit. Eating the loss of a lot is not always the popular vote, but I think that it will open eyes and be something that has to be written in for next year. But thats just my opinion take it for what its worth.

 

[Doc]

Malinda, The way we normally do it is as follows:
Charge a consignment fee say $35 to 50 per head.
If they scratch they pay catalog & postage fee &  advertising fee . You deduct their consignment fee from the total they owe. If you can't get them to pay(say they only consigned 1 head), you keep the consignment fee & don't allow them to consign to that sale again.
If they show up & no sale their calf then , they pay everything including commission on the amount they floored their calf at.
If you want to discuss any further ask me Saturday at Greenhorns.

 

[sjcattleco]

Hey Malinda

I have participated in that sale in the past both as a buyer and a seller.

I am sure its frustrating to some people who recieve a catalog,  get the "hots" for a certian heifer, go to the sale and she is not there.  Experience has taught me to call the consigner 2-3 days in advance to verify that she will be there and to ask if that something comes up and they can't make it to call me and let me know.

Your concerns are just part of the pitfalls of an open consignment sale. I don't think there is much that can be done about it  or really should be.  If someone makes it a habit of no showing or no saleing at a sale like that then they will earn a reputation that will do more than just levy a small monetary penality.

 

[DL]

When we started the Maine sale in MI we had quite a few people who were interested in making sure the sale actually worked and they told people who wanted to buy their animal they had to go to the Expo to buy it. That of course was very good of them and probably cost them $.

I think the best way to do it is make the consignment fee relatively high - $100 - $150 or so - that way people think twice before putting anything and everything in the sale. If they are a no show you keep the money. The biggest problem we ever had was getting people who no saled their bulls (always bulls) and who only had one head to pay their commission -

I also called or had people call if they were not bring lots - then there were fewer surprises - good luck - there are always unhappy people with whatever you do and interestingly they never offer to help!

 

[Dusty]

I think what hurts a sale more than anything is when you let people consign junk.  I hate driving to a sale and after the first 5 lots all there is a hundred lots of people's culls.  I would rather go to a sale that had 25-40 lots of good cattle than 100 lots of weigh cows and common calves.  I think if you are going to have a consignment sale you need to be picky about who and what you let in.  Quality is more important than #'s.  Do it that way for awhile and your sale will be known as a top end sale and people will skip weddings and funerals to be there.  Consignors won't want to sell animals before the sale then.  Also I don't think you can charge $150 entry fee into the sale until your sale gets a really good reputation.  Even then I think you need waive the entry fee for your good consignors that bring the top sellers every year and give them a break on the commission.  Take care of the people that you depend on if you know what I mean.

I had to laugh when I was talking to a guy who a few years ago bought a bull out of a consignment sale for like $800 and after the sale the consignor was asking him what kind of cows he had and he told him that he AI's and was going to make him into a gomer bull.  Letting bad animals into a sale doesn't help the breeder or the sale any.

 

[OH Breeder]

I think what hurts a sale more than anything is when you let people consign junk.  I hate driving to a sale and after the first 5 lots all there is a hundred lots of people's culls.  I would rather go to a sale that had 25-40 lots of good cattle than 100 lots of weigh cows and common calves.  I think if you are going to have a consignment sale you need to be picky about who and what you let in.  Quality is more important than #'s.  

AMEN

 

[redwingfarm]

I also agree that quality is much more  important than quanity, but what really drives me nuts is watching lesser animals from a farm with a big name still get a big price,  mainly because of the name on the paper.  I've seen calves that were great individuals but from a "nobody" just get slaughtered in price and then hear the "big guys" explain that you have to "pay your dues".  Well maybe the "big guys" should announce what the dues are in advance so that the nobodies can pay in advance and then announce to the crowd that the nobodies have "paid their dues" and are just as good as the "bigs"

 

[renegade]

Thats basically what happened to me at the beginning of this year. There is a hereford sale that I consigned 2 heifers to. Im not a big name yet and had only been in this association for a year but these were SUPER nice heifers that I was selling - basically to get my name out there and I still had their half sister who was even better. So I finally get the paper work after the deadline was almost up. The fees were 100 a head plus like 25 each for entries to the show. The heifers did pretty well but did get beat by a BIG name around here that had april heifers in this class that looked the size of feb calves if not january.  Then I got pushed to the end of the sale order and then they decided that my two heifers would go in the sale ring at the same time since they were related. Well they barely brought commercial prices - even the auctioneer was like come on guys these are nice heifers not even getting commercial price. Well I no saled (of my own decision but I was even told like they are too nice for that price) and the guy that runs it was so nice about it. Hes like ya know you have to get a name around here before you sell pretty high, hes like i know how it goes and he even got my fees back for me and he was very sorry

 

[sjcattleco]

I think what hurts a sale more than anything is when you let people consign junk.  I hate driving to a sale and after the first 5 lots all there is a hundred lots of people's culls. 

LOL well that being said!!!  most consignment sales are culls.... you sell the ones you can for what makes you happy... you keep the ones you want to put back into your own herd... these are the most important in my opinion ... and then  if you want to bother with it you consign something to a sale...

I have gained many customers for the simple reason that they used to buy bulls at the Beef Expo. Once I pointed out the fact that
A. they were not sold as calves,
B. not sold as weanlings and
C. Not good enough to get sold by the breeder making a few phone calls and getting the word out

He then gets consigned to the Beef Expo in January for a March sale because the owner has a huge feed bill and they might as well keep on feeding him.

so you are now offered for sale a bull or heifer that has been passed over 2 or 3 times and you the potential buyer are looking at it and have probably not seen either parent or know anything about the enviroment it was rasied in!

 

[oakview]

Most consignment sales that we have been involved with charge an entry fee.  You don't get your entry fee refunded if you don't show up.  I don't think it would be too much to ask for a phone call advising the sale committe/manager of a pre-sale, though. 

I would not call our state beef expo consignment sale cattle a group of culls.  For the most part, people bring something to try and represent their herd to the utmost.  It costs too much and takes too much time to get cattle ready for a sale in February to bring a cull.  Sale barn price is usually better than a low consignment sale price minus $400+ sale expense.  There may not have been many national champions sold through our beef expo, I can remember one, but there have been a lot of useful cattle that have helped build or establish many good herds.  I have watched many cattle sell at our beef expo that would have worked for me, but like most of the people selling there, I needed the money, too! 

 

[red]

at the Ohio's Maine expo the sales committee has the right to refuse an animal. I've seen them turn some away because of lack of gain, scrotum size or ringworm/warts.

I think a well run sale depends on a sales manager that is right on the ball. Nothing worse than the morning of the sale & there are no sale lineups ready.

Red

 

[Malinda]

Thanks everyone for the input. I appreciate all comments and opinions. Getting this information to the board meeting should be easy since one of the posts was from another board member.

I left my OPINION out of this initially, so everyone could post their thoughts without my having any influence. BUt, here is my comment (opinion):

If you get a call and are asked to consign and say yes, you have just given your word.
If you fill out the entry form and pay your money have you signed a contract? Legally, probably not, but in my mind yes you have.

When you consign to a sale and then have the opportunity to sell the animal privately you should say no. Explain that you have given your WORD and/or signed a contract to consign. Tell them to go to the sale....they might get it cheaper! Sometimes standing on your word will get that person back to look at your cattle again; they might like working with someone they think is reputable. Over the long haul you have a good chance of making more money.

I have 'backed out' of two cattle sale deals. The first time I had sold some folks in Maine a heifer using pictures. They made arrangements to come and pick her up but the longer she stayed here, the more structurally unsound she got. I called them and told them I did not want them to take the heifer...she was going to a 4-H or FFA member and I wanted her to be in their pasture making college fund money when her show career was over. The Maine folks thanked me for being honest but decided to come to Ohio anyway, since they had taken vacation days off work. I ended up selling them another heifer and I have lifelong friends. They called last year wanting another heifer. I did not think I had anything that they would want and helped a friend of mine sell them a heifer. When they came to pick her up they stayed here and brought LIVE lobster. They brought everything, even the butter, They also brought fresh shrimp and included the cocktail sauce. Now that is the kind of friends I like.

The other time I backed out was a similar deal; I didn't like the set to her rear wheels. They had purchased their farm from me and we have since become great friends. I see that heifer several times a year and I don't have to apologize for selling them something unsound.

In short, sticking to my word and getting good friends in more important than the sale of one heifer. These people backed out because they were working on getting a better deal on up the road. Well, give someone enough rope and they will hang themselves. It always comes back to you.

One of the calves that did not come to the sale was pulled because they did not think it was good enough. I can see that both ways: if you consign something that is of lesser quality that can reflect on your breeding program but if the calf was borderline the better option might have been to never enter it.

I have ranted long enough.

Thanks again to everyone that took the time to respond.

Malinda

 

[mechanic]

Malinda; I may be a little late with this but at our Club sale here in Ontario we charge a $100 entry fee which is non-refundable upon withdrawal of your animal before the sale. This $100 entry fee is then applied to the comission when the animal sells. As far as pulling one out of a sale because you get a better sale price at home I don't think that this is very ethical at all. Our approach to this is to offer to carry that persons bid to the sale. We had a couple of chances to sell the Robyn heifer that we sold in the Generations of Excellence sale this summer. it would have been all right financially because we wouldn't have had to truck her 900 miles and pay all the expences involved to go that far but we had made a commitment to take her to Loudon's and we followed through. She sold in the sale for $5000.00 to Ashely Smith and will give us alot of advertisement next year on the show road in Indiana.

Jim

 

[Malinda]

Our Ohio Shorthorn Assoc meeting was yesterday (Sunday) and pulling consigned cattle out of a sale was discussed.

We had a very long discussion and several suggestions were presented. In the long run no decision was made.

We had a lot of topics to cover and it was getting late. Since the next sale isn't until next fall, we tabled the discussion to a future meeting.

It's a tough decission but thanks again to everyone that replied and made comments and suggestions.

Malinda

 

[Jill]

I also agree that quality is much more  important than quanity, but what really drives me nuts is watching lesser animals from a farm with a big name still get a big price,  mainly because of the name on the paper.  I've seen calves that were great individuals but from a "nobody" just get slaughtered in price and then hear the "big guys" explain that you have to "pay your dues".  Well maybe the "big guys" should announce what the dues are in advance so that the nobodies can pay in advance and then announce to the crowd that the nobodies have "paid their dues" and are just as good as the "bigs"

Paying your dues means to me you have a track record of cattle that not only look good as babies, but also finish well and do well in the environment for which they are sold.  There is no shortcut to paying your dues, it's part of being a cattle breeder (or any other business) if it was easy, it wouldn't be worth anything because everyone would be doing it.