New herd bull

[pds]

What are some thoughts? Here is Z 28 owned by Clifford Farms. He is a Paddy O Mally X Heatseeker X Witch Doctor 50% Maine. Birth weights of the calves have been 60 lb. - 75 lb. Pics of calves can be seen on face book under Clifford Farms. Semen is available contact Ed 260 609 7110

 

[RyanChandler]

Great phenotype.  That's exactly how a BULL should look- notice how much larger his heart girth is than his flank 'girth.'    (thumbsup)

 

[pds]

Thanks I should add that he is 6 going on 7 years old in the pic and still very sound

 

[CAB]

Xbar what do you think about this cows flank girth compared to her heart girth?? Link below to a picture.



http://meyercattlecompany.net/images/donors/10-4-11/683R.jpg

 

[RyanChandler]

Xbar what do you think about this cows flank girth compared to her heart girth?? Link below to a picture.



http://meyercattlecompany.net/images/donors/10-4-11/683R.jpg

I think it's excellent!  Bulls and cows should both be wedge shaped- BUT IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS! Both animals are ideal examples of their respected sex.

 

[pds]

He is the sire of the bull Surrender that SEK is handling. What would be the best way to promote an older bull. We just bought him this summer because we really liked the calves out of him.

 

[pds]

bump

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

To me, his heart girth and his rear end both lack a little. For a mature bull I'd like to see more capacity in both. That bull sure won't produce that type of cow IMO. And bulls are only by products in passing on a cows genetics. Although I do go along with the theory of line breeding bulls and using the cow as a outcross. If that makes sense.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Personally I think that cow is a tick to extreme for me. My ideal types are below until I can prove it wrong.

 

[RyanChandler]

After I wrote that, I knew I should have clarified. I just meant ideal in terms of the heart girth to flank girth proportion.  Bulls being larger in the chest- females larger in the flank. 

Personally I think that cow is a tick to extreme for me. My ideal types are below until I can prove it wrong.

What do you mean by too extreme?  I don't care for the fin-like tail head but ,to me, that cows pretty exceptional.

I like the bull you posted but when they're that fat, who knows how he really looks.  And the cow- the first word that comes to me is "more."  Too moderate, too flat, too plane- there's just not enough there for me.

 

[CAB]

I should mention that I saw this cow in person 2 weeks ago today and she has her natural April born calf nursing her now with no creep, dry lotted most of the season to keep her away from the bull to be able to flush her, the calf easily weighs 600 lbs plus and the cow is still in that kind of condition. Very easy keeping set of cattle. Meyer's will sell some flushes on their donors.

 

[RyanChandler]

How can you form any conclusion about the fleshing ability of an animal when theyve been dry lotted all year?


She's over conditioned IMO.

 

[DakotaCow]

April calf still on dam in late dec and it's only tipping the scales at 600?

 

[CAB]

Remember I said no grain and no creep. Very lo input cattle.

 

[Barry Farms]

DakotaCow; I would be happy with that, my February born replacement heifers are only about 600 lbs right now. Then again the cows live on cheap string hay in the winter and are 1200# mature. Shoot for a 400-500 WW.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

After I wrote that, I knew I should have clarified. I just meant ideal in terms of the heart girth to flank girth proportion.  Bulls being larger in the chest- females larger in the flank. 

Personally I think that cow is a tick to extreme for me. My ideal types are below until I can prove it wrong.
[/quote

What do you mean by too extreme?  I don't care for the fin-like tail head but ,to me, that cows pretty exceptional.

I like the bull you posted but when they're that fat, who knows how he really looks.  And the cow- the first word that comes to me is "more."  Too moderate, too flat, too plane- there's just not enough there for me.

That bull is line bred and so is the cow. Both are in range condition. If he looks like that on just pasture I'm sold. The cow pictured above is to extreme in her back half to me. I don't think she will last long. I could be flat wrong. The cow I pictured is a Shoshone cow. The other cow looks very "ohlde" type to me. But too much of it. I don't think that cow can travel over range country nor do I think she would hold up very long.

 

[RyanChandler]

I think its important to remember that "pasture" doesn't hold really any quantifiable meaning.  What kind of pasture? What was the stocking rate?  These are the two questions that should immediately come to everyone's mind when hearing claims of "grass fed" or "low input" type operations.  I can't speak to claims of that bull being on pasture only- but I can tell you that no bovine is capable of attaining that level of cover on my pastures (alone).  It's my opinion that if you have cattle that are getting over a bcs of 6 on your pasture, that its time to add quite a bit to your stocking rate as you are severely under utilizing your resources.  I prefer the "ohlde" type pictured - on a pasture ration, I don't think shed like quite as extreme. 

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I think its important to remember that "pasture" doesn't hold really any quantifiable meaning.  What kind of pasture? What was the stocking rate?  These are the two questions that should immediately come to everyone's mind when hearing claims of "grass fed" or "low input" type operations.  I can't speak to claims of that bull being on pasture only- but I can tell you that no bovine is capable of attaining that level of cover on my pastures (alone).  It's my opinion that if you have cattle that are getting over a bcs of 6 on your pasture, that its time to add quite a bit to your stocking rate as you are severely under utilizing your resources.  I prefer the "ohlde" type pictured - on a pasture ration, I don't think shed like quite as extreme.

Great points buddy. I have never been to horse butte but I can imagine irrigated pastures and hay. In a good year I can get a bull looking like that on grass. If he has the gas to do it. We had a bunch of ohlde cows here for awhile. IMO the more toward the type of that cow, the less they put in the calf. They looked like a million bucks but the older more average looking cows had much heavier calves every year. Don't get me wrong that cow is pretty close to ideal. I just think once you get into extremes or on the presopous of a extreme, you've gone to far on the cow side.

 

[CAB]

Link to this cow's pedigree below


http://meyercattlecompany.net/donors/FCC-BlackcapLady683R.html